Anyone done their own conveyancing for selling a house?

[NewBiz 10]

Out of curiosity Jeffrey, what's your standard charge (not including disbursements) for a purchase? Ours is about £450 I think. About the same? Nothing to do with rivalry, just curious, as I think it's worth £450 to avoid any risks, when I'm spending £250k on a house!

 

Jeffrey's charges depend on all the usual factors including price, (ie. the more expensive the property the more he charges) according to what he posted on another thread.

[S10er 10]

One very good reason to use a solicitor/legal exec/licensed conveyancer is that they will have indemnity insurance. The point Jeffrey tried to make at the start of this thread. You are therefore not just paying for the lawyer's time but also for the benefit of his insurance policy. If he b@lls up the transctions/misses something then you can claim against his insurance for the loss you suffer and will get compensation. Do the conveyancing yourself and you get no insurance. Your choice.

 

I think when Jeffrey gave his a) b) c) d) examples those were examples of where someone without a qualified lawyer went wrong and where he was asked to put things right, not examples of where he'd missed things.

[NewBiz 10]

I think when Jeffrey gave his a) b) c) d) examples those were examples of where someone without a qualified lawyer went wrong and where he was asked to put things right, not examples of where he'd missed things.

 

I don't think they were, as he was asked to cite examples of where he had prevented what he had previously desribed as 'potentially catastrophic errors' and these examples were his reply.

 

But I agree the 1st 2 definately read as though he only spotted them after the event.

[Kaye2812 10]

I don't think they were, as he was asked to cite examples of where he had prevented what he had previously desribed as 'potentially catastrophic errors' and these examples were his reply.

 

But I agree the 1st 2 definately read as though he only spotted them after the event.

 

But, if he had prevented them, then wouldn't that indicate he spotted them before completion of the purchase... otherwise he was merely rectifying the mistakes made / missed prior to the purchase. It certainly doesn't read like he missed them to me anyway.

[NewBiz 10]

The reason they sound like they were spotted after the event to me are use of phrases like 'the repercussions of' and 'dramatic problems caused by an undisclosed mineshaft'

 

If the mineshaft for instance was spotted prior to exchange then the buyer would have had the option to pull out of the deal, and there wouldn't have been any 'dramatic problems'

 

Anyway I'll be interested to read what Jeffrey writes in reply to my earlier post.

[L00b 441]

From what I know of IP, patents etc (which is having spent time with a firm of specialists on several occassion with clients) I wouldn't dream of trying to do that myself. However there's no comparison between that and the conveyance of the vast majority of registered houses, so what exactly is your point?

My point is driven home very nicely by Jeffrey's reply post of yesterday, 16:56, in respect of potential pitfalls of DIY conveyancing.

 

The reason why you "wouldn't dream of trying to do IP, patents, etc" yourself is the exact same reason why legal professionals specialise in conveyancing (or family law, or criminal law, or...): for your one -thankfully harmless/successful- own experience, there are untold thousands of people who likewise "wouldn't dream of trying to do conveyancing". They choose to turn to professionals instead.

 

Anyone can have a go at most aspects of law and self-represent in this country. IP just the same as conveyancing, or criminal defense. Whether you choose to DIY or appoint a representative is a choice, not an obligation.

 

As explained to you many times over, however, there are consequences to this choice - for the few hundred quids saved by DYI'ing conveyancing, one could instead land themselves in for (tens of) thousands, at short/medium/long term - whether as liability, or loss, or other.

 

Or e.g. -in my field of speciality- spend (tens of) thousands branding completely in vain (website/brochures/stock/etc... all of it in the bin); or obtain grant of patent claims that are commercially worthless; or register too narrow a form of trade mark or design; or miss a due date...the pitfalls are endless. Literally.

 

Many of these pitfalls, if you fall in, can be remedied after the fact - at a cost (that's why e.g. most patent offices have specific "late fees" and relevant "restoration" procedures, all usually with a heavy burden of proof on the applicant - and no garantee of success at all). That cost "to put things right" is usually at least an order of magnitude above what it would have cost to have a professional do the job right in the first place. Pay me a penny now, pay me a pound later - remember? ...and yet, many other of these pitfalls cannot be remedied at all. Bit of a bummer, when you have just invested hundreds of thousands in this natty plastic tie thing called a 'rapstrap'

 

The exact same applies in respect of conveyancing, divorce, administering wills, this-that-the-other governed by volumes of acts, sections and precedent.

 

So, you make the choice to DIY legal services/tasks and save a few quids, you live with the consequences when you get to the stage at which you are in over your head (or too far gone to recover economically). Simples.

Edited February 7, 2012 by L00b

[NewBiz 10]

The reason why you "wouldn't dream of trying to do IP, patents, etc" yourself is the exact same reason why legal professionals specialise in conveyancing (or family law, or criminal law, or...): for your one -thankfully harmless/successful- own experience, there are untold thousands of people who likewise "wouldn't dream of trying to do conveyancing". They choose to turn to professionals instead.

 

Anyone can have a go at most aspects of law and self-represent in this country. IP just the same as conveyancing, or criminal defense. Whether you choose to DIY or appoint a representative is a choice, not an obligation. As explained to you many times over, however, there are consequences to this choice - you make the choice, you live with them. Simples.

 

 

 

Of course anyone can have a go at anything. The point I've been making, which I think is really simple (as opposed to 'simples' which isn't a word) is that for a registered property conveyancing is a fairly straightforward process, which most people could accomplish without a problem in the majority of cases, provided they have a set of instructions, eyes and a modicum of commonsense. I have also said repeatedly that DIY conveyancing isn't for everyone, and not for anyone in some situations

 

Having spoken to IP lawyers a fair few times, I personally wouldn't attempt to lodge a patent myself. From what I've seen of my client's inventions, the degree of knowledge needed to be successful is certainly well beyond even the vast majority of people, as any guide book would have to be such a weighty tomb that few people would/could assimilate the amount of info that it would need to contain to even get started.

[andygardener 10]

The exact same applies in respect of conveyancing, divorce, administering wills, this-that-the-other governed by volumes of acts, sections and precedent.

 

So, you make the choice to DIY legal services/tasks and save a few quids, you live with the consequences when you get to the stage at which you are in over your head (or too far gone to recover economically). Simples.

 

I wouldn't agree with that. What you do is very complex and I'd see it as an integral part of the invention business as without good advice it can all be for nought. NewBiz mentioned they have some experience of this and agrees that IP is so highly specialised you'd be a bit mad to try and DIY it. Comparing what you do to mundane stuff like bog standard wills and conveyancing is doing down what you bring to the party for your clients.

 

There are plenty of people who wouldn't feel comfortable doing their own wills or conveyancing and having the option of paying £400 for someone to do it is usefull for them, it doesn't mean the rest of us are all doomed if we choose to do it ourselves. I would strongly advise a client with no chainsaw experience to leave it to me deal with a fallen tree, I wouldn't on that basis suggest they were dicing with death by dead heading the roses themselves.

 

As for divorce, I helped an ex do her divorce and it was a piece of cake as no lawyers were involved. I know that requires two reasonable people to start with but surely nobody even in the legal business can suggest that the whirlpool of staggering fees that so many divorcing couples get sucked into by lawyers whose financial interest is directly opposed to compromise is a good thing?

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

True. That's why mediation is often (almost always?) recommended.

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

Yes. Some examples are:

a. the repercussions of V's defective title of failure to extend a lease;

b. dramatic problems caused by an undisclosed mineshaft in garden;

c. property torched by vandals between exchange of contracts and completion;

d. errors in 'chain of title' (unregistered land) where V relied on an Isle of Man Grant of Probate.

So

 

a and b Both sound as though you failed to spot the problem before completion, is that the case? Also how did you unearth the problem?

c. In what way did you save the client from a 'potentially catastrophic event' assuming we don't consider the place being torched as a major problem?

d. Illustrates what I've been saying all along. It was unregistered land, and sounds like a complicated case, which is exactly the sort of circumstance I've said where I would hire a solicitor.

 

And just out of interest, when did these events occur?

 

Thanks

All of these:

a. occurred within the last ten years;

b. were spotted by me before exchange of contracts [not item c, of course!]; but

c. might/would not have been spotted by a DiY conveyancer- who might/would have been lost in dealing item c, I suspect.

[NewBiz 10]

Yes. Some examples are:

a. the repercussions of V's defective title of failure to extend a lease;

b. dramatic problems caused by an undisclosed mineshaft in garden;

c. property torched by vandals between exchange of contracts and completion;

d. errors in 'chain of title' (unregistered land) where V relied on an Isle of Man Grant of Probate.

 

All of these:

a. occurred within the last ten years;

b. were spotted by me before exchange of contracts [not item c, of course!]; but

c. might/would not have been spotted by a DiY conveyancer- who might/would have been lost in dealing item c, I suspect.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

So 3 'potentially catastrophic events' in 10 yrs, when conveyancing is what you do for a living. Less than one every 3 yrs, (excluding d, which was an unregistered property for which I've said before I would hire a solicitor) It's not very many is it?

 

Finally, I asked before, how did you spot a and b?

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

So 3 'potentially catastrophic events' in 10 yrs, when conveyancing is what you do for a living. Less than one every 3 yrs, (excluding d, which was an unregistered property for which I've said before I would hire a solicitor) It's not very many is it?

Those are just a few of many.