B.Collie x Sheltie (?) with some issues..

[Elizabeth13]

Looking for some opinions, experiences and suggestions.

 

Got my little foster dog, (who is as we speak at the Vets getting his knackers chopped off!).

I think he is a collie x sheltie (what do you think?) as he is mostly white, with sable patches, very petite in height as well as very lean and skinny (working on putting weight on but i think he's naturally on the lean side), but you can see the collie face. He doesn't seem to show any border collie traits however, loves his walks but isn't a pain in the bum for them; he doesn't bounce off the walls or anything like that. I've not had a sheltie or experience with them, but apparently they are a little aloof with strangers and vocal - which this chappy is (try to shut him up when he's excited or around dogs or the postman comes - anything from whining to loud barking).

 

However. He's got some little issues coming to light.

 

He did demonstrate some slight food dislike/guarding, by growling at me when he was over his food in his bowl. I did my usual ignoring the little beggers protests and actually held his nose in my hand rubbing/stroking it (he likes that) whilst he grumbled. He hasn't done it since, and even if he does as you may guess it isn't nasty enough to worry me - I can easily do the whole treats into his bowl, intensifying to the feeding by hand etc. if needed to work him through that problem.

He also growls when giving his belly a rub? Could well be a happy thing though? He did growl with toys as well but he will now growl and bring it to you as if wanting to play - so guessing this growl can be an inappropriate happy/playful thing? (Hard to know sometimes!)

I imagine he wouldn't like it if i tried to take his pig-ear from him, but i don't mind working on the give-him-a-treat whilst he has it in exchange for the ear and what not.

(He is a very skinny chappy, it is possible he was starved when he was straying etc.)

 

Now on to the real issue concerned..

He appears to be fear aggressive to people.

 

I noticed it first with visitors like the postman/meter reading guy.

He would look at them and bark loudly, jumping up at them and darting away.

I usually herd him off at this point, or i am asked to hold him by the person, but he continues his protest of barking.

When my brother popped round quick, I asked him to kneel to let him sniff, which the dog did, but then he carried on barking and darting at him - jumping up; and at one point i am sure it came close to nipping my brother (i have a feeling it easily would have escalated). At this point my brother had to go, he was in a rush (which was a shame, I could've done with working the dog through it!).

 

When out and about he's not too bad, will have a bit of a sniff at some one but usually shies a little away from touch - sometimes he will allow a bit of a pet.

 

As said earlier, he's gone to Vets to lose his manliness. He didn't like the Vets - his tail was right between his legs, he was whining, and tried darting to the door low to the ground. Clearly was very nervous!

I popped him up on the table, and the chap just wanted to check his heart but naughty doggy stood their, looking straight at the Vet (eyes looking up, as his head was align with his back) and growled at him (no teeth). At this point the poor Vet got a muzzle and I popped it on with no trouble, as the Vet said he did not want anymore stitches! He was fine after that, muzzle came off, back on floor, and he even sniffed the Vet and the Vet took him.

 

As I mentioned, I think this chappy obviously has some nervous aggression cooking up inside, and I do not want this to escalate in anyway - especially to a nip! He was timid when I first met him out of the Pound, so it's not a new thing.. But he very quickly warms to you with people he knows and is a cuddly sweet thing. I never got this fear aggression from him, and neither did my OH or our friend.

 

So what do you all think?

Any experience of this?

Any suggestions?

 

I have got two weeks coming up, in which i will push on getting some extra obedience training with him, work on taking his toys/high value treats/dinner, even if he doesn't react, just to ensure.

 

He doesn't get on the sofa or beds, walks we are working on (he pulls quite a bit to begin with due to excitement) which isn't too hard to correct.

 

He does attack the post, rips it up if you let him.

He also does NOT like being shut in the crate and left - he will pull anything through the bars that you leave close (even if he has a bone!), so we are working on crating him during the day randomly, and letting him out when he finally settles.

 

And finally, here is the cheeky chappy:

 

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/bethicus/Whiskey/P1110034.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/bethicus/Whiskey/P1110033.jpg

 

I'm hoping the snip might help calm/settle him anyway.

[medusa]

OK- the first thing I think to answer- the growling when he's all submissive and you're rubbing his tummy. Could this be a groan rather than a growl? I know several dogs (mine included) who make a sound which is sometimes thought of by others as a growl, but has none of the emotions behind it and is a submission/pleasure sound rather than a warning.

 

As for the fear aggression with people, taking action such as taking him away or the other people leaving may actually be feeding the aggression, as he gets to see that when he behaves in this way he no longer has to be 'guarding' against these people as either he's removed or he succeeds in making them leave.

 

Have you tried getting some of the people to just come in, be quiet and calm in conversation with you (but armed with treats) but not to leave until this whole thing has played out? At some point he has to start relaxing around humans and this is far more likely to happen if you can get to the point where he starts to show interest rather than fear.

 

At the first sign of less negative body language the visitor should fetch a morsel of treat out of their pocket and gently throw the treat near the feet of the dog without making too much eye contact. This should, hopefully, be something that encourages him to come closer and investigate the visitor with less of the negative body language, which can be met with more treats and positive stuff.

 

An alternative to this is, if you're really feeling unsure about exposing people to him, is to put him behind a baby gate where he can see people but not get to them. The visitor can then walk past the baby gate without coming too close and just gently drop yummy treats on his side of the gate. As he gets more calm then the visitor can get closer and eventually come close to him, as he will hopefully come closer to the gate to investigate the people.

 

Both of these will need repeating loads of times, so you'll need some people who are prepared to visit regularly to get him in practice and who are prepared to stay for an hour or two in order to allow him to work through his fears.

 

If these don't make significant inroads on his fear then it would be worth consulting a behaviourist to work out what it is that he's afraid of.

[Elizabeth13]

I was thinking that Medusa, which is a shame that everyone carries on (like postman) in walking away, because he has ultimately won in the purpose he wanted.

 

I was looking to that idea, but the problem is is getting people to come!

Sounds silly, i know - but i don't really have anyone to come and do that with him.

We don't get visitors at all really.. I don't have much at all of friends and family nearby!

 

My first thought I could take him to my dog friendly local, sit at a table with some treats and ask anyone who approaches to give him one. I know he's not as bad when out of 'his' area, but it can only help surely?

[medusa]

Well, if you throw in a free cup of tea I'll come round and have a chat with him and offer him some of Molly's fabulous dried black pudding, and I'm sure that there are a load of other pets group users who will do the same if needed.

 

You need calm people who know what to do (i.e. be natural but calm, ignore the dog but know when to be the source of good things) and I'm sure that there are other dog owners who are prepared to offer their services.

[Elizabeth13]

Oh lovely Thanks Medusa !

[NewBiz]

Where abouts do you live?

[Elizabeth13]

Heeley

 

Poor chappy is all done and dusted at the Vets and officially nadless!

I am going to pick him up soon

[willman]

My parents have had Shelties for eons - they still have two. They yap incessantly at visitors and door knockers, even after training,water sprays and everything else recommended.(my mum was even part of an agility dog group).

Although you say he isn't showing BC traits - nipping and controlling is exactly one of theirs although it is also inherent in Shelties.

[Elizabeth13]

My parents have had Shelties for eons - they still have two. They yap incessantly at visitors and door knockers, even after training,water sprays and everything else recommended.(my mum was even part of an agility dog group).

Although you say he isn't showing BC traits - nipping and controlling is exactly one of theirs although it is also inherent in Shelties.

 

I know, i've always had BC's

But trust me, he doesn't show any collie traits (as of yet) - except possibly you could say the nervous aggression, which can be quite common in collies.

There is no nipping in a herding manner at all - he's not nipped anything, but the time with my brother coming round it looked like he wanted to lunge and nip/bite him, but in no way a herding way!

 

Poor sod is feeling very sorry for himself now with the head collar on!

 

So what do you think Willman by the photos? Possible sheltie in the mix?

[willman]

looks more bc in his coat to me personally, but sheltie looks in its face.

 

lovely little dog - i think he'll settle nicely.