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Occupy Sheffield Cathedral

do you think the protesters deserve to stay ?  

599 members have voted

  1. 1. do you think the protesters deserve to stay ?

    • yes, and they should be encouraged to stay
      217
    • no, and they should be evicted by the church
      382


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Come on guys, that was a really disappointing response. Only one response to my question. It's easy to just criticise, but I'd have far more respect for your concerns if you can offer a reasonable response to my question. So I'll post again...

 

Let's assume that action does need to be taken against inequality and injustice. With that in mind... what do you propose is the alternative to public protest for ordinary people to help bring about a more equal and fair society?

 

1. Debate and refine practical proposals with others on the myriad of forums and websites on t'interweb.

2. Once you have something practical to propose diseminate it via the myriad of electronic means available for free to anyone with a broadband connection, linking back to a government e-petition.

3. Once you have a respectable number of signatures, but short of the 100K needed for a debate in parliament contact the media with a press release, offer of interview to gain further publicity.

4. Hold physical outreach sessions in town centres handing out flyers detailing your proposal and inviting those who agree to sign the epetition.

5. If your concept is sound and well supported you have now had it debated in parliament and may even have changed government policy to include your idea.

 

Try that, if it doesn't work then come back to me and I'll see if I can come up with something else. (though camping outside a Cathedral will not be on my suggestions list :) )

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1. Debate and refine practical proposals with others on the myriad of forums and websites on t'interweb.

2. Once you have something practical to propose diseminate it via the myriad of electronic means available for free to anyone with a broadband connection, linking back to a government e-petition.

3. Once you have a respectable number of signatures, but short of the 100K needed for a debate in parliament contact the media with a press release, offer of interview to gain further publicity.

4. Hold physical outreach sessions in town centres handing out flyers detailing your proposal and inviting those who agree to sign the epetition.

5. If your concept is sound and well supported you have now had it debated in parliament and may even have changed government policy to include your idea.

 

Try that, if it doesn't work then come back to me and I'll see if I can come up with something else. (though camping outside a Cathedral will not be on my suggestions list :) )

 

Great Andy, thanks for the positive contribution. Your suggestion is certainly a constructive one and worthy of further discussion by the protesters. Speaking personally, I am sceptical though of how big a dent in inequality this approach would have. As I think all contributors have agreed, our politicians of all parties are failing us and we therefore need to explore options outside of using the mainstream political arena... as many successful movements have operated in the past. That's not to say that this shouldn't happen concurrently though...

 

Thanks again for the positive contribution. Keep them coming...

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Moderators! I don't usually call on you but this is out of order. This is highly insulting to those with and without jobs (of which the camp is made up of a diverse cross section). Please could you do something about this torrent of abuse.

 

You know what tough if you don't like my opinion I don't like the fact that you are polluting the city centre and discouraging investment from businesses in this city. You are doing NOTHING to encourage the regeneration of our city

 

As for a wide cross section of protesters I am sure you would love for your portrayal to be widely accepted but it just baloney, 95% of what I can see down there are benefit scroungers that are doing nothing it seems to find a job. I am disgusted that the benefits agency have not acted on this but then again with those guys being public sector workers they have an agenda as well against this government putting the wheels back on the economy.

 

Go and find a JOB

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1. Debate and refine practical proposals with others on the myriad of forums and websites on t'interweb.

2. Once you have something practical to propose diseminate it via the myriad of electronic means available for free to anyone with a broadband connection, linking back to a government e-petition.

3. Once you have a respectable number of signatures, but short of the 100K needed for a debate in parliament contact the media with a press release, offer of interview to gain further publicity.

4. Hold physical outreach sessions in town centres handing out flyers detailing your proposal and inviting those who agree to sign the epetition.

5. If your concept is sound and well supported you have now had it debated in parliament and may even have changed government policy to include your idea.

 

Try that, if it doesn't work then come back to me and I'll see if I can come up with something else. (though camping outside a Cathedral will not be on my suggestions list :) )

 

All seems quite reasonable, if they feel they can achieve anything though by having a camp also, I don't see that as unreasonable.

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You know what tough if you don't like my opinion I don't like the fact that you are polluting the city centre and discouraging investment from businesses in this city. You are doing NOTHING to encourage the regeneration of our city

 

As for a wide cross section of protesters I am sure you would love for your portrayal to be widely accepted but it just baloney, 95% of what I can see down there are benefit scroungers that are doing nothing it seems to find a job. I am disgusted that the benefits agency have not acted on this but then again with those guys being public sector workers they have an agenda as well against this government putting the wheels back on the economy.

 

Go and find a JOB

 

You are only showing what an ignorant fool you are. Of course it is your right.

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According to the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16253205

A committee of MP's said that There was potentially £25 Billion of Outstanding tax owed by big companies.

 

Yes but the petition you linked to specifically says;

 

"Our tax chief had secret lunches with Vodafone and Goldman Sachs and then handed them billions in tax breaks – while keeping Parliament in the dark!"

 

No evidence for those two companies getting billions in tax breaks. Assume the petition is turning Goldman Sachs' £10 million into billions to play on some peoples prejudice against the big bad jewish banker.

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for those who didnt think OS makes a difference, watch newsnight now, they are saying the government is looking into bringing in laws to deal with tax avoidance by the biggest companys... do you think they are doing that unilaterally? no its public pressure that's forcing them.. and its been one of the highlights of the OS message

 

It was a result of an HMRC report into taxes the results of which were reported on the 20th December. The investigations of which began in early October and was commissioned well before then. E.g. before Occupy even existed. The reforms are as a result of that report which was already in progress, not because of anything Occupy did.

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It appears I need to start myth busting again as this one really doesn't seem to be sinking in...

 

Myth: The protesters are all unemployed or ‘tramps’

 

There appears to be a common perception that the vast majority of protesters are unemployed. Obviously in the current economic climate, and with a worsening homelessness problem, a number of protesters are unemployed or homeless. However, the significant majority of protesters have jobs and are giving up their free time outside of work to populate the camps. Taking Occupy Sheffield by way of example, I was encouraged to meet individuals from such a wide range of professions including solicitors, engineers, entrepreneurs, business consultants and many more. Furthermore, far too often derogatory terms like ‘tramps’ or ‘hobos’ are used in relation to the protests. Such terms are not only offensive to both the protesters they are aimed at and the homeless people they reference, but they also reveal a staggering ignorance of the issues and individual stories of people affected by homelessness.

 

If you want to read more about the reality behind some other myths about the Occupy movement then please read my blog post https://jonmaiden.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/busting-myths-about-the-occupy-movement.

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No- I said the most I'd seen was 10 when I was there (in reply to an opposer of the camp who said the most he/she had seen was 2).

 

Obviously, the number I saw when I was there bears no relation to numbers there at other times. Clearly the number I saw, which was 10, is totally compatible with the occupiers claim of an average of 25 (overnight).

 

As for your claims of -

 

I've visited the site on many occasions and have to say that you're not painting any kind of accurate picture.

 

I'll stop short of calling you a liar, purely because, like several other posters here, you may have a basic prejudice that any attempts to do things in a different way to you conventional housedwellers must inevitably be dismissed as 'a mess'- what you say is 'rubbish tied to trees', for example, others (me included) may recognise as a worthy effort to decorate it with recycled, crafted produce, to bring a bit of christmas spirit to the camp.

 

Either way, if you want to make a valid point, I'd suggest you go down with a camera (a mobile phone cam will suffice) and get some evidence to back up your outrageous claims. And, if you do, good luck, cos a lot of people who look at such photos will not share your petty prejudices and may not see the 'mess' that you do.

 

I am 8 months pregnant. I've walked past and seen this but I have no desire to stop and take pictures as I'm not keen on engaging with the drunks and misfits who seem to congregate around there in my condition particularly if it might turn nasty. And to be frank anybody with one eye who's been in the area can see what a mess it is.

 

I don't think my claims are outrageous considering that Occupy's own minutes say that two people are needed to (in their own words) 'clear out the crap from the shopping trolley' which refers to a trolley full of rubbish which for some reason has the insides of washers or driers scattered around it.

 

The 'recycled crafted product' has not been 'crafted' no care or attention or time has been spent on it, it's literally bits of rubbish tied to a tree.

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It appears I need to start myth busting again as this one really doesn't seem to be sinking in...

 

Myth: The protesters are all unemployed or ‘tramps’

 

There appears to be a common perception that the vast majority of protesters are unemployed. Obviously in the current economic climate, and with a worsening homelessness problem, a number of protesters are unemployed or homeless. However, the significant majority of protesters have jobs and are giving up their free time outside of work to populate the camps. Taking Occupy Sheffield by way of example, I was encouraged to meet individuals from such a wide range of professions including solicitors, engineers, entrepreneurs, business consultants and many more. Furthermore, far too often derogatory terms like ‘tramps’ or ‘hobos’ are used in relation to the protests. Such terms are not only offensive to both the protesters they are aimed at and the homeless people they reference, but they also reveal a staggering ignorance of the issues and individual stories of people affected by homelessness.

 

If you want to read more about the reality behind some other myths about the Occupy movement then please read my blog post https://jonmaiden.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/busting-myths-about-the-occupy-movement.

 

Can you back this up with any evidence, these seem to be simply professions you have picked out of the air. For a start there aren't even enough people involved to cover the professions you claim.

 

'Myth busting' isn't simply making up a few myths of your own and placing them online as 'fact' with no corroborating information and presenting them as truth.

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You are only showing what an ignorant fool you are. Of course it is your right.

 

Exactly you are entitled to your opinion at least you are not begging the mods to remove mine because you don't like it...

 

As for a fool hmmmmm let me offer my opinion of the current situation:

 

I am sick of bankers raping the system

I am sick of scroungers playing the system

I am sick of politicians milking the system

I am sick of the government allowing unfettered immigration (I do not have a problem with immigrants that want to work my problem is not them it is the fact that we allow "home grown workers" to sit on their backsides pretending they are too good for the jobs the immigrants take"

I am sick of public sector workers thinking they have a divine right for gold plated pensions and jobs for life

 

and just to stay on topic I am sick of people that think they can break the law to protest such as the recent riots regarding student fees and the scruffy mob that pollute our city centre. We live in a democracy you have a right to LEGALLY protest but when you break the law to do so then you have gone too far .....

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Great Andy, thanks for the positive contribution. Your suggestion is certainly a constructive one and worthy of further discussion by the protesters. Speaking personally, I am sceptical though of how big a dent in inequality this approach would have. As I think all contributors have agreed, our politicians of all parties are failing us and we therefore need to explore options outside of using the mainstream political arena... as many successful movements have operated in the past. That's not to say that this shouldn't happen concurrently though...

 

Thanks again for the positive contribution. Keep them coming...

 

Go on I'll bite.

 

1. Try to get into the current system, easier to change from within. The green party seem to back what you're doing so open up a proper dialogue with them, unless you want to go your own way.

 

2. Put forward spokespeople. As soon as any of you lot say anything it always seems to be countered with something like "others at the camp have different views "etc. Anyone on tv is instantly disowned as well. You want transparancy and responsibility but nobody seems to want either at ocs.

 

3. According to reports alot work at occupy. Those that do, close all mainstream bank accounts and either go with credit unions or someone cuddly like the co-op bank. Mortgages should be done be moved as well to similarly ethical institutions. Practice what you preach. It won't be easy, it might not be cheap but it might show what can be done without using the big boys.

 

4. Open dialogue with the citadel owner. Even if he doesn't want to talk back at least give the impression you aren't trying to screw him over. He might have made the mistake of not doing anything with it (did he buy it with sevenstone in mind ? I dont know). As a small businessman the one thing I hate is watching someone get strung up. He isn't vodafone.

 

5. Shift the tents and before you get regular people in the citadel, post, everywhere a report (council backed hopefully) that its safe for community use. If a regular person gets injured you are sunk.

Edited by tinfoilhat

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