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Buses - Why so expensive?

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What infuriates me is they have the cheek to call us customers, thats totally wrong, a customer has a choice to go elsewhere,, if the bus is your only means of getting about just where is the option in that, you either ride or you walk. IM NOT A CUSTOMER Im forced to use the bus.

You could call a taxi.

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You could call a taxi.

 

Not everyone works for the council.

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even though it says sheffield city council on the sign ?

All Council operated car parks say that on the sign. SCC don't own the land on all of them.

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All Council operated car parks say that on the sign. SCC don't own the land on all of them.

 

But I assume the council gets a cut of the money raised by it ?

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But I assume the council gets a cut of the money raised by it ?

The Council lease the land from the owner. The Council operates the site as a car park, so they collect the revenue (and of course the penalties for overstaying).

 

I don't know the details of the lease agreements, but the Council wouldn't take the site on if they didn't feel they could operate it commercially.

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Buses never run on a commercial basis. Every journey attracts big subsidies and grants that taxpayers fund. Bus operators get back a huge chunk of the duty paid on fuel. If a route is unprofitable, the operator won't bid for it. The council subsidise any unprofitable routes that they see as being important, so bus companies cant loose.

 

Mostly wrong. Bus operators get public money from 3 main sources only one of which is a subsidy.

 

1) money for carrying senior citizens and the disabled free. This is not a subsidy to the operator, rather it is a subsidy to the passenger. Operators argue that they are not paid enough to carry these passengers for free and that is one reason why fares are higher than they woukld otherwise be.

 

2) money for operating tendered services. Also not a subsidy. The large majority of bus mileage in a city like Sheffield is operated on a commercial basis. Uncommercial journeys (chiefly evenings and Sundays) that an operator cannot run commercially but are deemed to be socially desirable are put out to competitive tender.

 

3) fuel duty rebate. Bus operators do get a rebate of some of the fuel excise duty. This is being withdrawn next year at which time it could be argued bus comopanies get no public subsidy at all!

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So, Ok. Why not terminate every other bus part way through the route. Say at the Ritz roundabout or even at Hillsborough if there aren't many passengers going the full route.

 

Once the route has been submitted and approved, the bus company has to have a good reason to terminate it early (i.e if a bus is running late and another bus is close enough to complete the full route, they will adjust the late running bus by turning it around early). The bus company can't decide to terminate a bus just because it isnt carrying many passangers - the PTE would have a fit.

 

And as has already been said, just because a bus appears to be running with a small number of passangers on one small section of the route, you shouldnt assume that the bus is as empty as this along the entirety of it's route. If it were, the service would be withdrawn.

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Uncommercial journeys (chiefly evenings and Sundays) that an operator cannot run commercially but are deemed to be socially desirable are put out to competitive tender.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Could you tell me who decides on which routes are socially desirable.

 

So if i read your post correctly, the bus company says that it can't make a profit on that route, so won't run it. Taxpayer, via SYPTE (?) steps in, and ask bus companies how much it will charge the taxpayer to run the service. Bus company's tender a price, SYPTE pay taxpayers money to bus company.

 

If its not a subsidy or a grant, what is it called?

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Thanks for the info.

 

Could you tell me who decides on which routes are socially desirable.

 

So if i read your post correctly, the bus company says that it can't make a profit on that route, so won't run it. Taxpayer, via SYPTE (?) steps in, and ask bus companies how much it will charge the taxpayer to run the service. Bus company's tender a price, SYPTE pay taxpayers money to bus company.

 

If its not a subsidy or a grant, what is it called?

 

South Yorkshire Integrated Transport Authority (SYITA) are the passenger transport authority. The PTE are their operational arm. SYITA is made up of councillors from all the South Yorkshire local authorities, so ultimtely, any decisions are taken by your elected representatives. They decide what is desirable in terms of supported bus services. The PTE officers will make recommendations to them.

 

 

The PTE officers will work in consultation with the relevant local council and any other relevant stakeholders to identify an services which are needed, but aren't commercial. The stakeholders might include businesses and jobcentre.

 

A good example is the new supported service called the Jobconnector, which links local communities to the new ASOS distribution centre in the Dearne. It was flagged up by the jobcentre that people were having to turn down jobs they had been offered because there was no suitable public transport. The PTE have organised a bus service, which needs suport at the moment, but is expected to become commercial over time as the employer carries out planned expansion. The government are impressed with the Jobconnector bus service and Transport Under Secretary Norman Baker praised it in a speech very recently.

 

So, if it is decided that a route that is not commercial needs to be run, the PTE will put out a tender to licensed operators. Once the tenders have been returned, evaluated and the most advantageous one agreed, a contract is awarded.

 

These are known as tendered services.

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You could call a taxi.

 

Right £6 by Taxi to town against £1:90 on the bus, are you a Taxi driver?

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Right £6 by Taxi to town against £1:90 on the bus, are you a Taxi driver?

 

For an individual, the bus is cheaper, but the taxi is on-demand and for a family it may actually be cheaper.

 

So, there are choices.

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