Your reaction to a loved one wrongly executed

[Harleyman 12]

Yes. There's no need for histrionics.

 

I'm hypothesising the execution of an innocent friend or member of my family through a miscarriage of justice.I'm assuming you have heard of that term?

 

That is the entire premise of the thread, as you will see from the title where it says wrongly executed

 

 

 

This is a thought experiment, perhaps if you read the thread this will become apparent to you.

 

Your assumption that everyone is more stupid than you - when you can't even take the trouble to read what is being written within the context of the thread, so that you inevitably end up getting hold of the wrong end of the stick, flying off the handle and strewing your posts with exclamation marks and sarcastic smileys - is your forum trademark.

 

Long may you continue with it.

 

 

 

Well sh*te happens. Not much you can do about it since the family member or friend is dead

 

Dont talk about executing judges though. That's just ridiculous. If the trial was a fair one and the evidence absolutely conclusive as to guilt why would you say any miscarriage could be involved?

 

Maybe judges should be issued crystal balls so that they will be able to foretell future turns of events involving the cases that they presided over

 

The biggest miscarriage of justice was the Timothy Evans case. Evans was below average intelligence and the police investigation was bungled and he was persuaded to write a statement which incriminated him plus Halliday Christie, the real murderer of Evans wife and child lied in court when testifying against Evans.

 

If Evans had had a decent lawyer he could have easily demolished the prosecutions case but he was assigned a two bit one instead

 

Evans in line with the British capital Punishment laws in the early 50s was executed shortly afterwards.

 

British author Ludovic Kennedy later on wrote a book about it which attracted wide spread attention and many say was the start to abolish the death penalty in Britain

 

The British system was Victorian and archaic and was a dead ringer for innocents to be wrongfully executed

Edited September 24, 2011 by Harleyman

[RootsBooster 24]

You mean sort of incorporating some kind if Islamic law into western judicial law?

 

Don't be daft :hihi:

No that wasn't my meaning, I wasn't trying to make a link between the two like you are doing. If it fits though, then yes on that particular point. Did you think this would wind me up or something? If in Islamic law, judges can be held accountable for executing innocent people, I fully support that part of the law.

 

Yeah! Fits right in with Iranian law

What is it with you?

The judge only rules on points of law; he is not responsible for evidence, or lack of evidence, leading to a conviction.

The Judge is responsible for the death of an innocent. It's as simple as that.

[RootsBooster 24]

Dont' you even undertamding ANYTHING about the way the judicial system works ? ? ?

 

Why would a freakin judge pass the death penalty on an inocent person ? ?

 

Let me give you the basics of common law:

 

A person is arrested for committing a crime

 

That person under the law is presumed innocent before the trial starts

 

A jury of 12 is selected by the court to hear his case

 

The trial begins

 

Evidence is presented by the prosecutor before the court (jury included)

 

The lawyer for the defendant makes the case for his innocence before the court (jury included)

 

Closing arguments are presented to the jury by the prosecutor and the defence counsel

 

The presiding judge issues his intructions to the jury

 

The jury retires to deliberate

 

The jury reaches a verdict. In this case after examining all the evidence the jury unanimously reaches a guilty verdict

 

The jury foreman reads the verdict to the court "guilty"

 

The judge then passes sentence

 

Therefore: Why in hell do you think that the judge is sentencing an innocent man????

 

What do you think juries are for? Wall decorations ??

 

It seems that more SF members should be called for jury duty in Sheffield courts and in that way they might not be so inclined to start daft threads about "judges sentencing innocent people

 

 

Blimey !!!! :rolleyes:

Yes, because there's no possibility of cover-ups, lies or bad memory, let alone corruption and fall-guys. It could OBVIOUSLY never happen.

 

Care to give a response to the OP?

[ArchViz 10]

Well sh*te happens. Not much you can do about it since the family member or friend is dead

 

Dont talk about executing judges though. That's just ridiculous. If the trial was a fair one and the evidence absolutely conclusive as to guilt why would you say any miscarriage could be involved?

 

Maybe judges should be issued crystal balls so that they will be able to foretell future turns of events involving the cases that they presided over

 

The biggest miscarriage of justice was the Timothy Evans case. Evans was below average intelligence and the police investigation was bungled and he was persuaded to write a statement which incriminated him plus Halliday Christie, the real murderer of Evans wife and child lied in court when testifying against Evans.

 

If Evans had had a decent lawyer he could have easily demolished the prosecutions case but he was assigned a two bit one instead

 

Evans in line with the British capital Punishment laws in the early 50s was executed shortly afterwards.

 

British author Ludovic Kennedy later on wrote a book about it which attracted wide spread attention and many say was the start to abolish the death penalty in Britain

 

The British system was Victorian and archaic and was a dead ringer for innocents to be wrongfully executed

 

I see that you edit your posts quite frequently, the above being a prime example.

 

You spout off without thought and then as an afterthought seem scurry off to Google do a bit of relevant reading and then re-hash a case the majority of people are very familiar with in order for you to look knowledgeable on any given subject.

 

Strange, very strange.

[Harleyman 12]

Yes, because there's no possibility of cover-ups, lies or bad memory, let alone corruption and fall-guys. It could OBVIOUSLY never happen.

 

Care to give a response to the OP?

 

 

 

Why do you think people who receive the death penalty in US courts are allowed a long process of appeals which can take years? It's precisely because later after the trial and conviction it might just come to light with new evidence that there was doubt about the person's guilt.

 

Or maybe you see the scenario in a real life court room that the cops are all liars, the DA is a frothing at the mouth psychopath, the jury are all retards and the judge is Moe of the 3 stooges.

 

If you were a judge and had to sentence a person after a fair trial with sound evidence of his guilt presented would you start blabbering about

 

"Well there could have been lies, coverups or loss of memory. I er er think I should declare him not guilty just in case there was"

 

:hihi: get real and stop watching late night cops shows.

[RootsBooster 24]

Why do you think people who receive the death penalty in US courts are allowed a long process of appeals which can take years? It's precisely because later after the trial and conviction it might just come to light with new evidence that there was doubt about the person's guilt.

The fact still remains that people are executed without 100% proof.

Or maybe you see the scenario in a real life court room that the cops are all liars, the DA is a frothing at the mouth psychopath, the jury are all retards and the judge is Moe of the 3 stooges.

Nope.

If you were a judge and had to sentence a person after a fair trial with sound evidence of his guilt presented would you start blabbering about

 

"Well there could have been lies, coverups or loss of memory. I er er think I should declare him not guilty just in case there was"

 

If by "sound" evidence, you mean 100% proof, no. I'd sentence the accused.

 

If by "sound" evidence, you mean less than 100% proof, then I wouldn't give a death sentence.

 

:hihi: get real and stop watching late night cops shows.

I very rarely watch TV, I NEVER watch cop shows.

[RootsBooster 24]

Well sh*te happens. Not much you can do about it since the family member or friend is dead

 

Dont talk about executing judges though. That's just ridiculous.

Why would punishing a judge for killing an innocent person be any more ridiculous than punishing anyone else for killing an innocent person?

 

If the trial was a fair one and the evidence absolutely conclusive as to guilt why would you say any miscarriage could be involved?

 

And you told ME to get real?!!

Do you actually think about anything before you type?

 

The scenario in the OP is an INNOCENT person being executed and you're asking how a miscarriage could be involved.

 

Yeah.

 

Maybe judges should be issued crystal balls so that they will be able to foretell future turns of events involving the cases that they presided over

 

Maybe they should only hand out death sentences when there is 100% concrete proof.

Edited September 25, 2011 by RootsBooster

[Harleyman 12]

Why would punishing a judge for killing an innocent person be any more ridiculous than punishing anyone else for killing an innocent person?

 

 

 

And you told ME to get real?!!

Do you actually think about anything before you type?

 

The scenario in the OP is an INNOCENT person being executed and you're asking how a miscarriage could be involved.

 

Yeah.

 

 

Innocent in whose eyes? The eyes of the law or the eyes of people who want to think he's innocent

 

Have you ever been on a jury? Do you know what a jury does even?

 

Why dont you supply me the number of innocent people executed in the United States in the last 50 years?

 

You seem to think that it could happen easily enough so you must know more than me.

 

You're punishing a judge for executing an innocent person sounds more like what should be done in countries with medieval laws of punishment like in Iran for instance where there are no juries but a few old mullahs passing judgement and often finding innocent people guilty because they judge people on the basis of a holy book.

They dont execute Mullahs in Muslim countries however, only innocent dissidents who dont agree with the government and demonstrate in a peaceful manner. They call them western backed troublemakers instead and open fire on them.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Harleyman

[Phanerothyme 12]

How can you have a discussion with this ^ ?

 

I really don't understand where he is coming from - banging on about the FACTS of a hypothetical case being different to those outlined by the OP.

 

It's almost like the word hypothetical is on holiday or something.

[RootsBooster 24]

 

 

Innocent in whose eyes? The eyes of the law or the eyes of people who want to think he's innocent

 

Have you ever been on a jury? Do you know what a jury does even?

 

Why dont you supply me the number of innocent people executed in the United States in the last 50 years?

 

You seem to think that it could happen easily enough so you must know more than me.

I know exactly the same as you, like it says in the OP, the executee was innocent, it's that simple.

You seem to be trying your hardest to defend an execution here, when we KNOW the accused was innocent.

You're punishing a judge for executing an innocent person sounds more like what should be done in countries with medieval laws of punishment like in Iran for instance where there are no juries but a few old mullahs passing judgement and often finding innocent people guilty because they judge people on the basis of a holy book.

They dont execute Mullahs in Muslim countries however, only innocent dissidents who dont agree with the government and demonstrate in a peaceful manner. They call them western backed troublemakers instead and open fire on them.

 

That doesn't explain why punishing a judge for killing an innocent person is any more ridiculous than punishing anyone else for killing an innocent person.

[ArchViz 10]

Why would punishing a judge for killing an innocent person be any more ridiculous than punishing anyone else for killing an innocent person?

 

 

 

And you told ME to get real?!!

Do you actually think about anything before you type?

 

The scenario in the OP is an INNOCENT person being executed and you're asking how a miscarriage could be involved.

 

Yeah.

 

 

Innocent in whose eyes? The eyes of the law or the eyes of people who want to think he's innocent

 

Have you ever been on a jury? Do you know what a jury does even?

 

Why dont you supply me the number of innocent people executed in the United States in the last 50 years?

 

You seem to think that it could happen easily enough so you must know more than me.

 

You're punishing a judge for executing an innocent person sounds more like what should be done in countries with medieval laws of punishment like in Iran for instance where there are no juries but a few old mullahs passing judgement and often finding innocent people guilty because they judge people on the basis of a holy book.

They dont execute Mullahs in Muslim countries however, only innocent dissidents who dont agree with the government and demonstrate in a peaceful manner. They call them western backed troublemakers instead and open fire on them.

 

 

Totally gaga, you've lost it.

[sccsux 10]

It's almost like the word hypothetical is on holiday

 

Or that the poster doesn't understand the meaning of the word.