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Metro: One Third Believe Flirtatious Women 'Ask' for Rape

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Approximately only 10–15% of rapes actually get reported to the police. So 85-90% go unreported. These 85-90% of women are not crying rape at all – even though it has happened to them. Of the rapes that are reported it is thought around 2% are false claims, around the same proportion as false claims of other crimes happening. So only a minute number of rape claims (taking reported and unreported attacks together) are false.

 

We have to accept that these attacks are happening. It is not women crying rape. Until this is accepted and we don’t get men trotting out the same arguments then we can’t tackle the problem. I know it is hard for some men to accept that this is happening on the scale that it is, but it is, and it is the men who do this that are to blame – not the women.

 

In response to Star Gazing’s post about some women and no meaning yes – well it should be perfectly clear to a man at the moment immediately before and during the sexual act whether a woman is consenting to that act. You’d have to be an idiot not to tell. And if she is in no fit state to withhold her consent then the man shouldn’t be having sex with her anyway. It IS as clear cut as that!

 

Jamie – you seem to contradict yourself on points one and two. First saying women have to be conscious that they way they look and act may attract the wrong attention, but then saying that no excuse for rape is valid. I agree with the second, but not the first. It is not up to women to change their behaviour – it is up to men to change. As I said before, advice like that towards the end of your message does NOTHING to prevent rape. This advice assumes that rape is committed by a stranger who sees an attractive woman and wants her. Sometimes this does happen, but the vast majority of the time it is someone already known to the woman. Telling women they have to behave differently does not stop these rapes occuring. They are by people they know and often in settings other than on/after a night out. However, even if rape does occur after a night out, then it still doesn’t matter how the woman was dressed. All men have self-control and all men should exercise it. Telling women WE need to change is kind of saying that men can’t control their behaviour and therefore it is only to be expected. Prevention is best, but prevention does not come from changing a victim’s behaviour (not in the case of rape anyway) but in changing society’s attitudes towards rape. There really needs to be a zero tolerance approach, rape is rape, no matter what. We will never tackle this problem if people insist on the continual lecturing to women about how they need to change their behaviour.

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zero tolerance means prison sentences applied to all rapists.

women who don't report rapes (up to 90-95% according to these different messages, is it because we are told that most rapists are not going to be behind bars for long or at all in some cases?

anyway, true nobody asks to be raped or shot..

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Originally posted by banesmabes

This is advice that does nothing to prevent rape. It is all about women having to change their behaviour. It is not a woman's behaviour that causes rape - it is a man's behaviour. It is therefore men's behaviour that needs to change, not women's

 

sorry but people have to learn o take precautions. It is always the rapists fault but people have to learn to take precautions and be as safe as possible.

 

If I walk through hillsbrough on a Friday night wearing a United top is it my fault I get the living daylights out of me or the people who do it? it is just about being sensible.

 

All I'm saying is I wish more girls would be more careful about random people they take home and walking home alone.

 

being safe wont change rapists or stop them raping but it may just safe the woman the trauma of being assualted or raped.

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Well that's it then, if you are born a woman you should be downright ashamed of yourself.

 

I think some kind of disguise might be in order; perhaps a veil of sorts?

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Originally posted by robbie

sorry but people have to learn o take precautions. It is always the rapists fault but people have to learn to take precautions and be as safe as possible.

 

If I walk through hillsbrough on a Friday night wearing a United top is it my fault I get the living daylights out of me or the people who do it? it is just about being sensible.

 

All I'm saying is I wish more girls would be more careful about random people they take home and walking home alone.

 

being safe wont change rapists or stop them raping but it may just safe the woman the trauma of being assualted or raped.

 

You've obviously not read my post properly. If you had you would have noted that most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows and trusts, and often in a situation in which they feel safe (i.e. not necessarily down a dark alley). Advice like not walking home alone is useless when the vast majority of rapes do not occur on these occasions. What's the point in taking your 'precautions' when those precautions will do nothing to decrease the risk?!?

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i think it will help.

ok most of the women who got raped was by somebody they knew, but what about the "rest of the most". Don't they count????

 

precautions are used to reduce risk, if none of us was taking any (i mean not only in this rape case issue) then where will we be?

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Originally posted by bookie

zero tolerance means prison sentences applied to all rapists.

women who don't report rapes (up to 90-95% according to these different messages, is it because we are told that most rapists are not going to be behind bars for long or at all in some cases?

anyway, true nobody asks to be raped or shot..

 

I think that is a factor. It's hardly going to prompt women to report rape if on top of having to go through all the physical examinations, questioning by police and then court appearances, their attacker (if on the off chance they are found guilty!) then gets away with 3 years, out in 18 months if they behave themselves. I think there should be a fixed sentence for rape as there is for murder. Say 15 years, and only eligible for parole after 10 years. Some of the sentences for rape are laughable (in some instances community service).

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Originally posted by banesmabes

Jamie – you seem to contradict yourself on points one and two. First saying women have to be conscious that they way they look and act may attract the wrong attention, but then saying that no excuse for rape is valid. I agree with the second, but not the first.

 

In my mind there is no contradiction to what I'm saying here banesmabes.

 

While I agree, there should be better legislation and legal infrastructure to help innocent victims of rape, but just like real life, the legal system is never going to be 100% fair, just and balanced. Although, campainging for an improved, and fairer legal system is always a good cause.

 

My advice is about ensuring your own personal saftey, for, and by yourself, and not hoping the law (or anyone else) will save you.

 

Yes, morally the onus is on the man, not to take advantage, no matter how a woman behaves or acts, it is for the man to have control over himself and his base urges.

 

The fact of the matter however, is that there are men (and women) out there who will take advantage of others, given the opportunity, and all I am saying is look out for number #1, and do not give them the opportunity.

 

To my way of thinking banesmabes, morality does not come in to it (it's too 'after the fact'). Not letting it happen in the first place, is what counts in my book.

 

If there was a perfect legal system, that protected the innocent 100% of the time, and never prosecuted the wrong person, that would be great.

 

Originally posted by banesmabes

As I said before, advice like that towards the end of your message does NOTHING to prevent rape.

 

Well, I disagree. Considering your behaviour, how drunk you are, how safe you are, what you can do to be safer, in short, taking responsability for your own well being. Is very good advice in my opinion.

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Originally posted by bookie

i think it will help.

ok most of the women who got raped was by somebody they knew, but what about the "rest of the most". Don't they count????

 

precautions are used to reduce risk, if none of us was taking any (i mean not only in this rape case issue) then where will we be?

 

Only around 17% of rapes are by a stranger. Even when the rapist is a stranger it should still not be up to women to change their behaviour. This is what any discussion on rape always decends to - what women should do to stop it happening. And then that leads back to the old idea that women are in some way to blame. People don't like the harsh truth that only men can stop this happening. Why should 51% of the population change the way they live their life because these men think their behaviour is accepatable. If this was happening to men on this scale then we certainly wouldn't be sat here telling men they need to take precautions - they'd be a national outcry!

 

Preaching to women about taking precautions is the easy answer, but it is the wrong answer. It's much simpler than actually saying "we have a major problem here with how rape is perceived and treated, and with number of men out there who think rape is acceptable".

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Originally posted by banesmabes

You've obviously not read my post properly. If you had you would have noted that most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows and trusts, and often in a situation in which they feel safe (i.e. not necessarily down a dark alley). Advice like not walking home alone is useless when the vast majority of rapes do not occur on these occasions. What's the point in taking your 'precautions' when those precautions will do nothing to decrease the risk?!?

 

all I'm saying is that if you had 2 options

 

1. walk home smashed alone

 

2. walk in a group or a group in a cab

 

the 2nd one is clearly safer.

 

I realise thta most rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim know but some aren't. If people think about how they are going to get home ir arrange something and it saves one attack or rape then surely that is a good thing?

 

the only ways to stop rapists are to:

 

educate people more.

 

bang up rapsists for a long time and make sure they are completely reformed before they are let out

 

make sure people learn the meaning of respecting others.

 

make prosecuting rape cases easier and provide support for victims

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Originally posted by Jamie

Well, I disagree. Considering your behaviour, how drunk you are, how safe you are, what you can do to be safer, in short, taking responsability for your own well being. Is very good advice in my opinion.

 

And is just passing the buck back to women in my opinion. This kind of 'advice' is all part of the problem of how rape is perceived in society. It is no better than believing that women are partly or wholly to blame for being raped in certain situations. It just passes the whole problem back to women to deal with, rather that looking at changing the attitudes that lead to such a high rate of rapes, and such an unbelievable acceptance of it as the 'norm' by much of society.

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Banesbabe is right in the fact a lot of rape and molesting is actually done by family/friends of family/friends etc... both the people I know that have been raped were raped by friends of the family... which makes things extremly distrought for the family when they find out...

 

I really think most things that have been said are valid in some sense, I agree women should be more cautious but I also think "why should they??"

 

I suppose the example above about a united shirt in hillsborough is semi-relevant, its not the best idea in the world to do it, but you should be fine in a perfect world to do it...

 

a woman should be completely fine wearing next to nothing and getting totally drunk, unfortunatly there are men out there that will take advantage of this situation... and if it was my friend or family they would be disowned possibly after a severe beating... its not a lovely world we live in unfortunatly

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