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Metro: One Third Believe Flirtatious Women 'Ask' for Rape

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Originally posted by banesmabes

But is significantly less than 41%, and it seems the police are pretty good at identifying when the allegations are false with less that 1% of false rape allegations actually resulting in a man being charged.

 

I think we need to get this in perspective here. A man is much less likely to be charged with a rape that was a false accusation than a woman is to be raped. Maybe we need to be a little less concerned with this and more concerned with what can be done to decrease the incidence of rape? Again, this is another example of where the debate goes off at a tangent at the expense of the more pressing issues. As I stated before men need to understand and try to overcome their fears about false rape claims in order to tackle the real issues.

 

what is it that you think can actually be done? Bearing in mind that the majority of rapes aren't stranger rapes and that all men know and understand that rape is wrong.

 

On the other issue, I don't see why a malicous false accusation of rape shouldn't be punished with a jail sentence. Maybe half the sentence the accused would have received if they'd be wrongly convicted, i'd think that that would quickly cut down on false accusations.

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Originally posted by Cyclone

what is it that you think can actually be done? Bearing in mind that the majority of rapes aren't stranger rapes and that all men know and understand that rape is wrong.

 

 

I listed a few of my ideas earlier in the thread - maybe 3-4 pages back now.

 

Also I only think a prison sentence would be suitable for malicious accusations if rape sentences were longer. When some men get given community service after being found guilty of rape I don't think a jail sentence can be justified for those wrongly accusing someone of rape. However, stronger sentences was one of my suggestion, so I certainly wouldn't oppose jail terms for those found guilty of perverting the course of justice in these circumstances - they do more disservice to women than they even do to men.

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Originally posted by banesmabes

A study that is not backed up by police statistics. Also, am I correct in thinking the sample was much lower than the Home Office study above, and the study was in another country?

 

The study was based entirely on police statistics. Yes the sample was lower - a single midwestern city (population C 70,000 people) over a nine year period. However all reported rapes within that time were assessed and only those which the complainant subsequently admitted were false were entered into the study as a false report. I'm not a social scientist so I can't assess the methedology, however that fact that it was printed in a peer reviewed journal (Archives of Sexual Behavior) leads me to believe it must be fairly sound. The research was done in America (as far as I am aware this is where Katz and Mazur also work) which is socially and legally not that different from the UK.

 

Finding 41% of reported rapes in a given city over a nine year period to be false by the admission of the complainant is a very disturbing number and has obvious inplications for how complaints of rape (especially when it is the case of one persons word against another) will be dealt with.

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Originally posted by evildrneil

Finding 41% of reported rapes in a given city over a nine year period to be false by the admission of the complainant is a very disturbing number and has obvious inplications for how complaints of rape (especially when it is the case of one persons word against another) will be dealt with.

 

But again, it is not backed up by the more recent police statistics from THIS country, not to mention the limitations of peer review.

 

Using the statistics from the home office (and discounting the false allegations), we can see that a woman is 1251 times more likely to be raped than a man is to be charged with a rape that never happened. And that is for reported rapes. It is estimated that as many as 5 more rapes actually occur for every 1 that is reported to the police. This makes a woman over 7500 times more likely to be raped than a man is to be charged with a false rape. So where should our priorities lie?

 

Unfortunately this is another example of where the debate on rape gets bogged down and the more pressing issues are not dealt with as a result. I'm not saying that false rape allegations are not serious - but get it in perspective. By focuing so much on the plight of men faced with false accusations what message are we sending out to the tens of thousands more women who are raped? That we cannot bring in reforms to improve conviction/reporting rates for rape because we are more concerned about the very small number of men who are affected by false accusations? As I said before, in bringing in reforms we can also being in measures to counteract false accusations. The debate cannot be bogged down by this issue.

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Originally posted by banesmabes

But again, it is not backed up by the more recent police statistics from THIS country, not to mention the limitations of peer review.

 

Which are? The peer review system means that a paper / publication to be indepentantly checked for outcome and methodology by experts in the field - something that typically isn't done by governmental reports. Dismissing a publication like this out of hand with little to no reason simply makes it appear that false accusations are not taken seriously. If fase accusations are not taken seriously it could lead to both a further proliferation of malicious accusations (as they may be seen as consequence free) and also to true rape attacks being dismissed due to the number of false accusations.

 

 

Unfortunately this is another example of where the debate on rape gets bogged down and the more pressing issues are not dealt with as a result. I'm not saying that false rape allegations are not serious - but get it in perspective. By focuing so much on the plight of men faced with false accusations what message are we sending out to the tens of thousands more women who are raped? That we cannot bring in reforms to improve conviction/reporting rates for rape because we are more concerned about the very small number of men who are affected by false accusations? As I said before, in bringing in reforms we can also being in measures to counteract false accusations. The debate cannot be bogged down by this issue.

 

Go back and read what I put earlier - in the long run false accusations are just as, if not more damaging, to women who have been raped than to the men being malliciously accused. This is a crime where a decision to presecute is made more typically on belief of an individuals story rather than on prima facie evidence (where such even exists) and the more people making this decision run into mallicious acucsations the more likely they are to dismiss a true accusation as a malicious one. This is as important a part of the debate as any other and dismissing it out of hand on the grounds of personal bias is not helpfull.

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There are many crimes which are committed daily and which are punished accordingly.

We are all aware of these crimes and that criminals are about and we do our best to protect ourselves.

We lock our doors and secure our possessions.

There is a publicity campaign going on currently to warn us about advertising our mobile phones to possible thieves when we are out and about.

To most of us this is common sense.

Rape is a crime too.

However, if a campaign aimed at encouraging girls and women to be less provocative in public were to hit our screens there would be uproar.

What does this say about our society?

We can't have it both ways.

It would make sense for girls and women to at least be aware of the effect their dress and behaviour has on the opposite sex

and be prepared for possible consequences.

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Originally posted by Floe

It would make sense for girls and women to at least be aware of the effect their dress and behaviour has on the opposite sex

and be prepared for possible consequences.

 

If you had read any of the rest of the thread yuo would see that 83% of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman and where dress/behaviour have little to no effect.

 

Also advising women to change their behaviour is an infringement of personal liberty. Someone locking their door takes no effort, in not an infringement of liberty, and the risk of burglary is infiniately greater than being raped by a stranger.

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Originally posted by banesmabes

If you had read any of the rest of the thread yuo would see that 83% of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman and where dress/behaviour have little to no effect.

 

And what about the other 17% ? Are you saying that because they are the minority of case people shouldn't try and minimise the chances that they will be a target?

 

Also advising women to change their behaviour is an infringement of personal liberty. Someone locking their door takes no effort, in not an infringement of liberty, and the risk of burglary is infiniately greater than being raped by a stranger.

 

Why don't see this argument about e.g. being carefull where you use your mobile phone (current crime preventions adverts), how you display your MP3 player (current crime prevention billboards) etc. This argument (if it can be called that) looks scarily like 'I should be allowed to do whatever I want and behave however I like without taking any responsibility for the potential outcome'.

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Originally posted by evildrneil

Which are? The peer review system means that a paper / publication to be indepentantly checked for outcome and methodology by experts in the field - something that typically isn't done by governmental reports. Dismissing a publication like this out of hand with little to no reason simply makes it appear that false accusations are not taken seriously. If fase accusations are not taken seriously it could lead to both a further proliferation of malicious accusations (as they may be seen as consequence free) and also to true rape attacks being dismissed due to the number of false accusations.

 

Such as the major limitation of peer review to deal with conflicts of interest among researchers, especially as often peer reviewers have similar conflicts of interest and similar biases to the original researcher.

 

I have not dimissed this report for no reason. I have dismissed it because it is not backed up by more relevant research and because of flaws in the peer review process, especially in reports that are so open to bias.

 

Originally posted by evildrneil

Go back and read what I put earlier - in the long run false accusations are just as, if not more damaging, to women who have been raped than to the men being malliciously accused. This is a crime where a decision to presecute is made more typically on belief of an individuals story rather than on prima facie evidence (where such even exists) and the more people making this decision run into mallicious acucsations the more likely they are to dismiss a true accusation as a malicious one. This is as important a part of the debate as any other and dismissing it out of hand on the grounds of personal bias is not helpfull. [/b]

 

I am perfectly aware that false allegations are as damaging to real rape victims as they are men. If you read my earlier posts you will see that I have already said this and that I have already acknowledged that it is serious issue. I have also proposed possible remedies to any increase in malicious accusations that may occur of there were radical reforms in order to make convictions for rape easier to gain. I am simply pointing out that reforms cannot be shelved because the debate gets bogged down in concerns about malicious accusations. We cannot continue to fail the 60,000 women a year who are raped because of fears about false accusations. It is not personal bias it is common sense - a woman is 7500 time MORE likely to be raped than a man is to be charged with a rape that didn't happen. It's pretty clear from that where the main focus should be.

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Originally posted by banesmabes

Such as the major limitation of peer review to deal with conflicts of interest among researchers, especially as often peer reviewers have similar conflicts of interest and similar biases to the original researcher.

 

I'm sorry what conflicts of interest? And what similar biases?? Are you trying to claim there is some sort of conspiracy of researchers???

 

I have not dimissed this report for no reason. I have dismissed it because it is not backed up by more relevant research and because of flaws in the peer review process, especially in reports that are so open to bias.

 

So you dismiss one report that has been independantly reviewed and published because of 'no other relevent research' - despite the fact that the book you cited earlier have found rates of malicious reporting up to 25% - in favour of a report that has had no independant critique, no additional supporting evidence (oh and that you have already misrepresented!) and far more open to bias and political misreporting but that fits in with your world view?

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Originally posted by banesmabes

We cannot continue to fail the 60,000 women a year who are raped because of fears about false accusations.

 

Ermmmmm I take it you mean the 60,000 who ALLEGE rape - a potentially VERY different number to those who have been raped...

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Originally posted by evildrneil

Ermmmmm I take it you mean the 60,000 who ALLEGE rape - a potentially VERY different number to those who have been raped...

 

Why would those women who don't report rape (approx 50,000 a year) lie about having being raped? They have nothing to gain from making up allegations.

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