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Metro: One Third Believe Flirtatious Women 'Ask' for Rape

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Originally posted by owdlad

Am I the only one who finds it unnaceptable that a man who is innocent has now got his face displayed on the internet, whilst the womans face is still kept secret.

 

I think in such cases anonymity should be extended to both parties...

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its not a pleasant thought but both parties should be named after the verdict has been reached.

granting anonimity to accusers"could" encourage malicious intent, which has happened. it would then give other guys something to think about next time they met the accuser late at night.

also the accused may not always be as innocent as they make out during the case.

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Originally posted by owdlad

Am I the only one who finds it unnaceptable that a man who is innocent has now got his face displayed on the internet, whilst the womans face is still kept secret.

 

What I find even more alarming is that this 'gentleman' took part in sexual congress with a woman who was, by her own admission, too drunk to remember anything. Surely the gentlemanly thing to do, even if the woman was trying to pull his clothing off in sybaritic desperation (though from the article I doubt that was the case) he should have been responsible enough to say no.

 

In what way is this man innocent? He was asked to escort a woman back to her home because she was too inebriated to get there alone. He was given a responsible task and then abused that responsibility. Doesn't that make him as deplorable as a rapist?

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Originally posted by byronshadow

What I find even more alarming is that this 'gentleman' took part in sexual congress with a woman who was, by her own admission, too drunk to remember anything. Surely the gentlemanly thing to do, even if the woman was trying to pull his clothing off in sybaritic desperation (though from the article I doubt that was the case) he should have been responsible enough to say no.

 

In what way is this man innocent? He was asked to escort a woman back to her home because she was too inebriated to get there alone. He was given a responsible task and then abused that responsibility. Doesn't that make him as deplorable as a rapist?

 

I agree, byronshadow, It's "taking advantage", at the very least. and yes, the gentlemanly thing to have done would be to wait till she's sobered up enough to consent.

 

PT

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From my reading of the article I would also take issue with the innocent (certainly ungentlemanly at best - not that thats an uncommon event these days) BUT I do think it's too simplistic to simply say 'he should have known better'. I'm sure we have all been out on nights with people who have appeared while merry pretty compos mentis but have the following day said they could remember nothing of the previous night due to drink. At the risk of starting a flame war, while this was most certianly at the very least an ungentlemanly act it doesn't appear to have been helped by unladylike behaviour, and (IMNVHO) if you expect to be treated like a lady or gentleman then you really should act like one.

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Originally posted by evildrneil

From my reading of the article I would also take issue with the innocent (certainly ungentlemanly at best - not that thats an uncommon event these days) BUT I do think it's too simplistic to simply say 'he should have known better'. I'm sure we have all been out on nights with people who have appeared while merry pretty compos mentis but have the following day said they could remember nothing of the previous night due to drink. At the risk of starting a flame war, while this was most certianly at the very least an ungentlemanly act it doesn't appear to have been helped by unladylike behaviour, and (IMNVHO) if you expect to be treated like a lady or gentleman then you really should act like one.

 

I respect your argument here, but if the 'gentleman' in question was asked to escort to the lady...

 

from the BBC article..

She became ill and a member of staff asked Mr Dougal, who was working as a security guard, to walk her home.

 

... then he was in a position of responsibility. The woman's 'unladylike' behaviour shouldn't have even had a bearing. She was incapacitated by drink according to external testimony.

 

Would you, in all honesty, make love to (or have sex with) somebody in that situation?

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Anonimity is a tricky one. I think that it should be extended to the accused, so that if they are found not guilty, or if charges are dropped then they don’t have that cloud hanging over them. If found guilty however then the name should be revealed. However I don’t believe an accuser should be named if the case doesn’t end in conviction. I am not sure what it would achieve. We have to remember that only a small number of rapes reported to the police are false allegations (around the same proportion as false allegations of any other crime) and as it is a particularly difficult crime to prove then just because a conviction hasn’t resulted doesn’t mean that the accusation was false. On the whole women do not make up allegations of rape, waiving the right to anonimity will only lead to even less women being prepared to report their attack to the police. There is no point in using the threat of revealing the woman’s identity as a deterrent to false allegations when there is not a significant problem with false allegations being made. Even if the woman was found to have maliciously accused rape then they still probably shouldn’t be named as it may make them an easy target for future attacks by men who know she stands an even lesser chance of being believed by the police.

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Originally posted by byronshadow

Would you, in all honesty, make love to (or have sex with) somebody in that situation?

 

Personally I wouldn't no, however my ethics are my own and don't neccesarily apply to the rest of the world!.

 

What I would say though is that we don't know the details of what exactly went on, any previous relationship (Was he asked to escort her home not because of his position but because they were old friends? Pure speculation of course but a possibility given that the normal respons to someone drinking themselves to a point of being ill [as appears to have happened here] is to throw them out of the bar/club.), whether she consented or even asked for sex etc. etc. Without more details I find it hard to arrive at any conclusion beyond they both appear to have behaved pretty badly and certainly not in a way you would expect a gentleman or lady to do.

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Originally posted by banesmabes

We have to remember that only a small number of rapes reported to the police are false allegations (around the same proportion as false allegations of any other crime) and as it is a particularly difficult crime to prove then just because a conviction hasn’t resulted doesn’t mean that the accusation was false.

 

According to reasearch by Prof Eugene Kanin:

 

Abstract of paper: With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.

 

With false being defined as the complainant saying that the accusation was false.

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From an official Home Office report published this year:

 

"False allegations have been one of the most contested areas within law enforcement responses to rape, with research suggesting rates are no higher than for other crimes sitting alongside perceptions of police officers and the media who take the opposite view. Some of the most frequently cited US studies put the rate as low as two per cent (Katz and Mazur, 1979).

 

There were 216 cases classified as false allegations: as a proportion of all 2,643 cases reported to the police this amounts to 8 per cent; as a proportion of the 1,817 cases not proceeding beyond the police stage it is 12 per cent (see Table 4.2). In only six of these cases was there evidence of anyone being arrested, and in only two cases were charges laid, although there were at least 39 named suspects. "

 

So it seems the police are pretty effective at weedling out any false claims as only 2 out of 216 false allegations were charges actually brought.

 

The full report can be found here:

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf

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but there were 39 named suspects who would have been interviewed etc.

216 men have been accused or alleged to have perpetrated rape (8%) and only 6 people arrested. Is that the accused or accuser?

6 out of 216 is only 3%,so they're obviously not pursuing the malicious accusers.

 

what state do you think there home life was in at the time or the mental anguish innocent men went through.

if any one is accused & documented(all documents are leakable) then the accuser should be named.

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the way I understand it (and i did open the report for a quick read). There would have been 39 men interviewed as the others from the group didn't name a suspect, thus there was no one to interview.

 

In 2 cases files were passed to the CPS regarding the complainant with regards to trying to pervert the cause of justice and/or wasting police time.

 

It also doesn't follow that all 39 men were arrested (although i'll admit they may well have been). It's possible though that some of the allegations were withdrawn or determined to be false before it even reached that stage!

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