Guest Pauly   #61 Posted November 21, 2005 I'm definately in with the science/big bang theory. My feelings towards religious believers have been made on this forum before so I don't think I need to make them known again.  I have just 2 words for them. Dark Ages!  Sorry.  P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
StarSparkle   10 #62 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by Pauly I'm definately in with the science/big bang theory. My feelings towards religious believers have been made on this forum before so I don't think I need to make them known again.  I have just 2 words for them. Dark Ages!  Sorry.  P  It's not necessarily Religious beliefs being discussed here, Pauly - it's much more Spiritual beliefs  StarSparkle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
BrainThrust   10 #63 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by StarSparkle It's not necessarily Religious beliefs being discussed here, Pauly - it's much more Spiritual beliefs  StarSparkle  Or rational beliefs  Wilf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
limpetboy   10 #64 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by kay_cee I fail to see how believing that God created the universe can be regarded as ridiculous.  Far more ridiculous surely is the theory of evolution.  That everything we see around us is the random result of a random big bang? That has even less chance of happening than a tornado hurtling through a scrap yard, the end result being a perfect boeing 747 left in the courtyard.  Intelligent design is a voice at least worth listening to.  I've been thinking about this of late and why can't everything be the result of a randomness? To accept that the world wasn't created as a result of random chance you have to accept that the universe is finite. In infinite universe then the random series of events that brought us to this point is statistically guaranteed to happen.  If the universe is infinite, you take every single possibility, every single minute circumstance and occurance, then you take every single possible combination of these circumstances and occurances and the law of probability demands that the exact set of circumstances that led to our creation (and I don't mean Creation in the biblical sense) will happen somewhere. On top of all of that, the infinite nature of the universe also demands that it is happening all over the universe.  I'm not saying you're wrong but at the same time you can't reject evolution just becuse it sounds a bit kooky, especially if you accept the alternate theory that God created us all. I know that I can't prove evolution or the Big Bang or that the universe is infinite. But you can't prove God exists either.  That's what makes discussions like this so interesting because lets face it, for all the opinions on this thread, not one of us has the faintest clue how we got here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
StarSparkle   10 #65 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by BrainThrust Or rational beliefs  Wilf  The two are not mutually exclusive, you know, Wilf  StarSparkle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
BrainThrust   10 #66 Posted November 21, 2005 Well, neither are religious and spiritual?  Wilf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
StarSparkle   10 #67 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by BrainThrust Well, neither are religious and spiritual?  Wilf  Of course - that goes without saying. Not quite sure where you're coming from with that  StarSparkle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jamie   10 #68 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by BrainThrust Well, neither are religious and spiritual?  Actually, I tend to think they are ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
BrainThrust   10 #69 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by StarSparkle Of course - that goes without saying. Not quite sure where you're coming from with that  StarSparkle  Well, earlier on you were saying this was more a discussion abotu spiritual beliefs, as if they were distinct from religious beliefs. I'm just saying the 3 can mean the same thing to some people and very different things to others.  I tend to separate the 3 from my subjective point of view, as I see religious as somethign i'll never understand, spiritual as something I'll never explain and rational as somethign I could explain if I knew enough.  Wilf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jamie   10 #70 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by Jamie Actually, I tend to think they are ...  Well actually, that's not fair or true, and I have met some very enlightened (buddist) monks and spiritual people from other traditions.  The thing is, for me, that spiritual self-discovery has nothing to do with religion. Religion can form a somewhat-structured framework for developing our spiritual lives. However, we should be careful that, that which is supposed to set us free, does not enslave us.  By my own definition, proof of 'god' is right here, before your very eyes, that there is anything here at all, that there is 'you' here to read and make sense of it all.  It's all one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
StarSparkle   10 #71 Posted November 21, 2005 Originally posted by BrainThrust Well, earlier on you were saying this was more a discussion abotu spiritual beliefs, as if they were distinct from religious beliefs. I'm just saying the 3 can mean the same thing to some people and very different things to others.  I tend to separate the 3 from my subjective point of view, as I see religious as somethign i'll never understand, spiritual as something I'll never explain and rational as somethign I could explain if I knew enough.  Wilf  No, no, I wasn't saying spiritual beliefs are distinct from religious beliefs - I was trying to say they're not IDENTICAL.  Clearly, spiritual beliefs and religious beliefs are very closely connected. In fact, I think you could say all religious beliefs are by their very nature, spiritual beliefs.  It's not the same the other way round though - spiritual beliefs are not necessarily religious beliefs, as in forming part of the belief structure of an organised religion.  When I use the word 'spiritual', I'm really using it as a metaphysical umbrella term. I'm using it to describe things beyond the mundane - things that we can't perhaps see or touch but we still believe in. Belief in life beyond the physical. Having faith in something above and beyond the everyday world.  Much of what I mean by 'spiritual' is in fact related to organised religion, but is not limited to that, and could also refer to New Age beliefs, for example.  Sorry if I was confusing earlier in the thread.  StarSparkle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
StarSparkle   10 #72 Posted November 21, 2005 I'd just like to add that, essentially:  To me, I think Spirituality is something very personal to an individual. I think it's about describing your own relationship with God, whereas Religion is more believing in and following the tenets of a particular religion, in a organised way, and perhaps in a communal manner.  Both are pathways to God. Similar, but not identical.  StarSparkle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...