Solar Panel Megathread

[El Cid 220]

It's metre for the spelling but most people go by feet and inches in this country!!

 

Nice to be corrected by someone that is right

[unbeliever 10]

Tvindkraft was built in Denmark, the 54-meter-high turbine has an iron and concrete tower and cone. Construction began in 1975.

I guess they can last as long as you want them to last,

Ferrybridge power station that is closing next year was built in 1966

 

I thought it was struggling because of the cost, it cannot be built without subsidy; they are still trying to get the money?

 

No it can't be built without subsidy. It's not the cheapest form of energy. That would be coal, closely followed by gas. All CO2 free energy requires subsidy. Renewables all have subsidy of one kind or another: Feed in Tariffs, extra taxes on competitors, guaranteed prices even when the energy is not needed. Most have multiple subsidies.

[apelike 10]

The energy is available but is discarded. Whether you generate electricity and discard it or just disconnect the generator and discard the wind/sunlight makes no difference.

 

Modern nuclear can be built for base load or on demand. The technology has advanced.

 

Modern Nuclear is normally run at base load and unlikely to run on-demand because of economics. That is why the Government are having to guarantee a fixed return on every MWH produced and not just on what is used. That has been one of the big sticking points with the proposed operators and why the contract costs and MWH costs are so high. Our present working reactors also run in base mode so electricity is also being, as you put it, discarded.

 

http://nuclear-economics.com/nuclear-base-load/

 

Gas will not run out. Methane is everywhere.

 

I should have been more exact.

 

The UK's natural gas supply is running out and is the reason why we import a great deal of piped in gas from Norway and import a great deal of LPG from Arab countries. How much methane is used at the moment?

 

Gas is cheaper and we have to have gas anyway for when it's neither windy nor sunny.

 

That may be so but its a "for now" scenario. Ukraine saw what can happen when another country controls the supply as the taps can easily be turned off or the prices can drastically rise.

 

I see no reason why nuclear on a larger scale should cost us more than it does anybody else in the world.

 

Because this is Europe and someone has to pay as it cant be subsidised. Those investors want a return for their investment that's why the proposed new reactor builders/owners are having problems getting the funding.

[unbeliever 10]

Modern Nuclear is normally run at base load and unlikely to run on-demand because of economics. That is why the Government are having to guarantee a fixed return on every MWH produced and not just on what is used. That has been one of the big sticking points with the proposed operators and why the contract costs and MWH costs are so high. Our present working reactors also run in base mode so electricity is also being, as you put it, discarded.

 

http://nuclear-economics.com/nuclear-base-load/

 

 

 

I should have been more exact.

 

The UK's natural gas supply is running out and is the reason why we import a great deal of piped in gas from Norway and import a great deal of LPG from Arab countries. How much methane is used at the moment?

 

 

 

That may be so but its a "for now" scenario. Ukraine saw what can happen when another country controls the supply as the taps can easily be turned off or the prices can drastically rise.

 

 

 

Because this is Europe and someone has to pay as it cant be subsidised. Those investors want a return for their investment that's why the proposed new reactor builders/owners are having problems getting the funding.

 

 

Nuclear is not perfect. It's more expensive than fossil and so it requires subsidy. All renewables also require subsidy (far more in fact).

Fracking would make us self-sufficient in gas.

 

You talk about how nuclear is normally base load. This is true. But renewables are neither base load nor on demand, nor peaking. That's the huge problem with them. At least nuclear is controllable. You can choose how much electricity to generate.

I just want the true costs (including the costs of backup and waste for renewables) presented for everybody to judge. If they choose renewables anyway, that's fine. At the moment it feels like a con.

[El Cid 220]

I now have eight solar panels on my roof. There is a digital display in the loft, which, three days ago gave a reading of 00038.4 kwh.

Today the reading is 00048.1kwh

 

So that means its generated 9.7kwh in three days. Any one else got solar panels? What would this power?

[unbeliever 10]

I now have eight solar panels on my roof. There is a digital display in the loft, which, three days ago gave a reading of 00038.4 kwh.

Today the reading is 00048.1kwh

 

So that means its generated 9.7kwh in three days. Any one else got solar panels? What would this power?

 

Would heat one room for one evening.

Except that it would be dark then. So basically nothing. Your electricity will mostly have been binned.

[El Cid 220]

Would heat one room for one evening.

 

I have my PC and radio on, just cooked bacon for a sarnie; but the heating is gas, and its off; so all ok here.

[unbeliever 10]

I have my PC and radio on, just cooked bacon for a sarnie; but the heating is gas, and its off; so all ok here.

 

At this time of day there is an electricity surplus. Your electricity has most likely been binned. It is valueless.

[Cyclone 10]

I now have eight solar panels on my roof. There is a digital display in the loft, which, three days ago gave a reading of 00038.4 kwh.

Today the reading is 00048.1kwh

 

So that means its generated 9.7kwh in three days. Any one else got solar panels? What would this power?

 

A traditional (incandescent) light bulb might draw 60 watts, so it would run 1 lightbulb for 161 hours.

Your kettle might draw 2kw, so it would run that for about 4.75 hrs.

 

A PC probably draws 500 watts so you could run that for 18 hrs.

 

---------- Post added 20-10-2015 at 12:12 ----------

 

At this time of day there is an electricity surplus. Your electricity has most likely been binned. It is valueless.

 

Is there really? Despite industry using power, which mostly happens during the working day.

[unbeliever 10]

A traditional (incandescent) light bulb might draw 60 watts, so it would run 1 lightbulb for 161 hours.

Your kettle might draw 2kw, so it would run that for about 4.75 hrs.

 

A PC probably draws 500 watts so you could run that for 18 hrs.

 

The average PC draws less than half that much. A 500W power supply may be installed, but it won't use anything like that much most of the time.

 

We're not allowed incandescent light bulbs, but there are a fair few 40-50W halogens still in circulation. For now.

 

I know I sound like a broken record here, but for the love of god don't forget storage. You can't use that electricity for anything unless it's needed right at the moment it's generated.

 

---------- Post added 20-10-2015 at 12:17 ----------

 

Is there really? Despite industry using power, which mostly happens during the working day.

 

Yes. Demand right now is 38GW. Down from a peak of almost 50GW last evening. Total capacity is a little under 60GW.

 

Most of the energy intensive industry: steel etc, has moved out of the UK due to high energy prices.

[Cyclone 10]

The average PC draws less than half that much. A 500W power supply may be installed, but it won't use anything like that much most of the time.

I know mine draws close to that, with an 80+ 800w PSU installed.

If you include the multiple monitors that are on (which have their own PSUs).

 

We're not allowed incandescent light bulbs, but there are a fair few 40-50W halogens still in circulation. For now.

Doesn't really matter, it was just an explanation, I didn't suggest he go out and buy one.

 

Yes. Demand right now is 38GW. Down from a peak of almost 50GW last evening. Total capacity is a little under 60GW.

 

Most of the energy intensive industry: steel etc, has moved out of the UK due to high energy prices.

 

How much of that capacity is rapid switching? If they can turn off a gas powered generator because people are putting solar back into the grid, then it isn't wasted.

[unbeliever 10]

I know mine draws close to that, with an 80+ 800w PSU installed.

If you include the multiple monitors that are on (which have their own PSUs).

Doesn't really matter, it was just an explanation, I didn't suggest he go out and buy one.

 

 

How much of that capacity is rapid switching? If they can turn off a gas powered generator because people are putting solar back into the grid, then it isn't wasted.

 

We have an increasing amount of "rapid switching" capacity which is expensive, inefficient and only necessary because of intermittent renewables. It's still a waste of money and fuel.