Court sentences for rioters

[just_words 10]

It will not. It does not. There are countries with far stiffer sentences than ours and a higher crime rate.

 

Do we any evidence or statistics of what does work?

[Bloomdido 10]

Harsh penalties will never stop all crime,but the probability of being caught and receiving a stiff sentence will certainly deter many.

 

On what evidence do you rest that statement?

[HeadingNorth 11]

Do we any evidence or statistics of what does work?

 

Statistics, no, not that I'm aware. There are plenty of countries with harsh sentencing and a low crime rate; with harsh sentencing and a high crime rate; with lenient sentencing and a low crime rate; with lenient sentencing and a high crime rate.

 

 

There must be other factors at play that determine how likely the people in a given society are to turn to crime. It's not easy to find out exactly what they are.

[LeMaquis 10]

Looting is not petty pilfering. You could have been shot on sight for looting during the blitz.

 

Who in their right mind would have gone looting during the blitz? They'd have been bombed along with the riot squad before they got shot.

 

There's a lovely story from the North East I've cut and pasted from the Guardian website about a 17 years old father who's on remand for rioting. A father at 17 and now banged up for rioting.

 

"A father broke down in tears as his teenage son was remanded in custody charged with one of the few incidents of trouble last week in north-east England.

 

The man was comforted by his wife as the 17-year-old was led away after being accused of violent disorder in which a police station in Washington, near Sunderland, was attacked and a patrol car set on fire.

 

The defendant, who cannot be named for legal reasons, looked distraught when bail was denied. His solicitor had said the teenager was "desperate" to see his own toddler son after spending the weekend in jail."

[just_words 10]

Statistics, no, not that I'm aware. There are plenty of countries with harsh sentencing and a low crime rate; with harsh sentencing and a high crime rate; with lenient sentencing and a low crime rate; with lenient sentencing and a high crime rate.

 

 

There must be other factors at play that determine how likely the people in a given society are to turn to crime. It's not easy to find out exactly what they are.

 

Agreed...

 

Welcome to lecture 1 of the school of SF... required reading is any of the following... Make wild assumptions then post them here so they can get shot down by us cynics!

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Crime_by_country

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_statistics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Crime_Victims_Survey

http://rechten.uvt.nl/icvs/images/graph05.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_crime

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

 

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=influences+of+crime&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

http://law.jrank.org/pages/813/Crime-Causation-Psychological-Theories.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juvenile_delinquency

[johncocker 10]

Harsh penalties do not deter crime. There any number of examples to prove that.

 

 

have you ever lived in a country where they have harsh penalties ?

 

just two I've been in recently china ...you can walk the streets and parks at night time and be safe .I;ve been in parks in beijing and shanghai at 10;30 at night and people are sat around talking or dancing or playing music making their own entertainment..civilized and safe

 

burma I've walked the streets of most of the major citys and small towns late at night no street lights no electricty (you need a torch all the time) and you feel safe . what have they got in common.? harsh penalties and people respect and or are frightend of the police.

[just_words 10]

Who in their right mind would have gone looting during the blitz? They'd have been bombed along with the riot squad before they got shot.

 

There's a lovely story from the North East I've cut and pasted from the Guardian website about a 17 years old father who's on remand for rioting. A father at 17 and now banged up for rioting.

 

"A father broke down in tears as his teenage son was remanded in custody charged with one of the few incidents of trouble last week in north-east England.

 

The man was comforted by his wife as the 17-year-old was led away after being accused of violent disorder in which a police station in Washington, near Sunderland, was attacked and a patrol car set on fire.

 

The defendant, who cannot be named for legal reasons, looked distraught when bail was denied. His solicitor had said the teenager was "desperate" to see his own toddler son after spending the weekend in jail."

 

That reminds me of someone I met last year... He was on bail for theft, assault and possession... For weeks he was in a terrible state, virtually in tears all the time, petrified of going down (had already served a sentence for some kind of 2nd degree murder)... Not that he really changed his was, but he even found god and started publicly praying (not at church mind you). On the morning he found out the cases had been dropped, well, he went out shop lifting with his teenage girlfriend and kids to celebrate... As you may guess, he felt untouchable and just got worse!

[HeadingNorth 11]

have you ever lived in a country where they have harsh penalties ?

[/b]

 

I've visited several; some of which have a barely existent crime rate, and some of which you would not dare to leave your house at night.

[Jason Bourne 11]

have you ever lived in a country where they have harsh penalties ?

 

<snip>

 

what have they got in common.? harsh penalties and people respect and or are frightend of the police.

 

Or maybe it's that the people have respect for each other?

 

Simply imposing harsh penalties and / or being frightened of the police smells too much of the New Labour of criminalising everything, just to make the law & order and conviction rates stats look good. End result is that you have too much law and not enough order.

[Jim Hardie 527]

That reminds me of someone I met last year... He was on bail for theft, assault and possession... For weeks he was in a terrible state, virtually in tears all the time, petrified of going down (had already served a sentence for some kind of 2nd degree murder)... Not that he really changed his was, but he even found god and started publicly praying (not at church mind you). On the morning he found out the cases had been dropped, well, he went out shop lifting with his teenage girlfriend and kids to celebrate... As you may guess, he felt untouchable and just got worse!

 

Where was this? There is no such thing as second degree murder in England and Wales.

[just_words 10]

Where was this? There is no such thing as second degree murder in England and Wales.

 

Well that's why I said some kind... is it manslaughter?

[RJRB 688]

On what evidence do you rest that statement?

 

What are you advocating ...... No penalties?