20mph limit to be imposed outside ALL Sheffield schools

[metalman 21]

In regards to your first point; don't be daft! It's never going to come lower than 20mph, this is just the sensible option. Nothing's going to grind to a halt and your journey is going to take an extra 30 seconds!

 

Finally, one death or serious injury is too many. I only finished school a little over 6 years ago and one friend died whilst another was put in hospital by two seperate incidents. 10mph is nothing in comparison.

 

I'll remember this post for when we see our first 10 mph limit.

 

It's all very well to say that my journey will take 30 seconds longer. So it might do, but when you add that on to the speed limit reductions already made everywhere, it makes it a lot longer. To give you an example, when I used to go to Hope a few years ago it was national speed limit between Malin Bridge and Hope. Now the stretch between the end of Rivelin Valley Road and Cutthroat Bridge is the only bit that isn't speed limited in some way.

 

Were your school friends in accidents outside the school or elsewhere?

[Eater Sundae 12]

I think it's unlikely you will see lower limits than 20. average speeds in residential areas aren't that much higher than this anyway. Often, the reduction they are looking for is only a few mph, but this does make a difference to overall casualty rates and severity

 

The upsurge in intrest in 20 zones is in some part due to the relaxation of previous government requirements that they should be self enforcing, which means that local authorities can put in 20mph zones just by signing, they don't need to have calming features as before.

Also you need to consider the political aspect and the localised nature of transport funding in Sheffield, where local transport scheme budgets are clargely controlled by area assemblies. This gives people who percieve there is a "problem" ample opportunity to get something done, if they can persuade local area assembly members.

 

Re bold bit. I think this is a really good development. The existing 20mph areas that I am familiar with (at Tinsley and Nether Edge) work OK, IMO, but the traffic calming is an inconvenience. There are plenty of residential areas where most people rarely travel above 20 anyway because that is a safer speed, but making this the limit will slow down those people who used to travel at 30 because "its the speed limit, so I can". There will still be some who will drive too fast for the conditions regardless of the speed limit, but I reckon there will be fewer than now. Also, the slower drivers in these situations are less likely to feel intimidated by being pressurised into going faster by other drivers, because they know that the speed limits now support them.

[Planner1 438]

I'll remember this post for when we see our first 10 mph limit.

 

It's all very well to say that my journey will take 30 seconds longer. So it might do, but when you add that on to the speed limit reductions already made everywhere, it makes it a lot longer. To give you an example, when I used to go to Hope a few years ago it was national speed limit between Malin Bridge and Hope. Now the stretch between the end of Rivelin Valley Road and Cutthroat Bridge is the only bit that isn't speed limited in some way.

 

Were your school friends in accidents outside the school or elsewhere?

The point that we are discussing here is 20mph zones in residential areas and outside schools in Sheffield. The average speed in residential areas is less than 30. Most 30mph residerntial roads on which I've had it measured it's mid 20's.

 

The aim is to reduce casualty numbers and severity. But, an important factor is the perception of safety. If a 20 limt allows more people confidence to walk and cycle (or let their kids do so), there are social, health and carbon reduction benefits.

 

The journey you describe is aprox 15 miles. A reduction in speed limit from 60 to 50 would theoreticlly add a maximum of 5 minutes to the journey. But you won't be doing 60 all the way, so the added journey time would be less than that in practice.

 

In all things, there is a balance to be struck. Nowadays, a lot more people are recognising the problems which car usage is causing for us as a society. An increasing number believe that a few minutes extra on your journey is a small price to pay to save people from being maimed and killed and relieving communities from some of the other ills which accrue from over reliance on cars.

[Eater Sundae 12]

It's all a bit of a moot point anyway, seeing as there are virtually no traffic police to enforce it.

 

Judging by the blatent speeding I see every day by hundreds of drivers, not to mention the brain dead on mobiles, there are an incredible number of selfish drivers out there who already have next to no fear of being caught.

 

Just because there is little or no enforcement doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Currently there is little or no enforcement of the 30 limit in residential areas, but the majority of drivers stick there or thereabouts to it. Some (many?) may edge a little over the limit if they think they will get away with it. With a lower limit, these people will do the same. So, instead of travelling at around 35mph, they will start travelling at around 25mph. This may not be perfect, but will be an improvement. Of course the idiots travelling at 40 or 50 will still be a problem, but they will look even more out of place and so more likely to be pulled.

[Eater Sundae 12]

If you truly believe that high speeds are a problem, you can ask the police / safety camera partnership to carry out speed checks. They are able to do this in areas of lcal concern.

 

If you raise this with the Council, they can carry out speed checks to see whether your theory is correct. However, I would caution that most people are not at all good at judging the speed of passing vehicles. In my career I have dealt with many such complaints and a very high percentage are totally unfounded. For example a chap at Hillsbor complained that most vehicles travelling up his street (30 limit) were doing 50+. Police put out automatic traffic counters for 3 full days. Only one vehicle in 3 days went over 30 and that wasn't much. People are very poor at judging the speed of passing vehicles, but Councils and Police have very accurate equipment to measure it.

 

Even though it is difficult to judge speed, the fact that he thought it was 50 might be because it felt intimidating and much too fast for the conditions. Isn't one of the reasons for reduction in speed as much to do with making the streets a nicer place to be for everyone?

 

Edit: Oops, you'd covered this in 63, which I've now just read.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Eater Sundae

[perplexed 10]

Just because there is little or no enforcement doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Currently there is little or no enforcement of the 30 limit in residential areas, but the majority of drivers stick there or thereabouts to it. Some (many?) may edge a little over the limit if they think they will get away with it. With a lower limit, these people will do the same. So, instead of travelling at around 35mph, they will start travelling at around 25mph. This may not be perfect, but will be an improvement. Of course the idiots travelling at 40 or 50 will still be a problem, but they will look even more out of place and so more likely to be pulled.

 

Oh I agree as it happens, and you are of course correct. I said the same thing on the Penistone Road thread, ie that the current 30 mph means you stand a reasonable chance of alot of the traffic doing 30 to 40 mph. Raise it to 40, and they'll be doing nearer 50 mph.

 

I'm just bemoaning the lack of traffic police generally.

Edited July 29, 2011 by perplexed
typo...

[Eater Sundae 12]

Oh I agree as it happens, and you are of course correct. I said the same thing on the Penistone Road thread, ie that the current 30 mph means you stand a reasonable stance of alot of the traffic doing 30 to 40 mph. Raise it to 40, and they'll be doing nearer 50 mph.

 

I'm just bemoaning the lack of traffic police generally.

 

Oh, I see, sorry.

 

Yes, I'd like to see more traffic police.

[krooner 10]

I'll remember this post for when we see our first 10 mph limit.

 

It's all very well to say that my journey will take 30 seconds longer. So it might do, but when you add that on to the speed limit reductions already made everywhere, it makes it a lot longer. To give you an example, when I used to go to Hope a few years ago it was national speed limit between Malin Bridge and Hope. Now the stretch between the end of Rivelin Valley Road and Cutthroat Bridge is the only bit that isn't speed limited in some way.

 

Were your school friends in accidents outside the school or elsewhere?

 

Yes, and why has it been thought necessary to introduce these measures?

[perplexed 10]

Oh, I see, sorry.

 

Yes, I'd like to see more traffic police.

 

No worries!

[jimbob321 10]

If they do it, it should only be in school hours. If they use speedbumps they need shooting and should pay to fix all the cars they are damaging.

[metalman 21]

Yes, and why has it been thought necessary to introduce these measures?

 

Well you tell me - why has every main road in the Peak District been reduced to 50 mph? Apparently overnight it went from safe to travel at up to 60mph to not safe to travel at 60 even though 99.999+% of people did it perfectly safely before that. Presumably Derbyshire council were jumping the gun because they thought that the national speed limit was going to be reduced to 50 but now it just seems a bit stupid.

 

It's all very well to say that the average speed round Sheffield is much less than 30 - indeed I think it was about 19 mph so even less than 20 as well - and so reducing the limit won't make any difference to journey times, but that's the average speed remember and you spend a lot of time sat stationary at traffic lights and so on. That's balanced out a bit by the times when you can actually do 30 but if that 30 is going to be cut to 20, then average speeds will drop even further, journey times will increase, and so will congestion as everybody will be spending longer on the road.

[walkertelecoms 16]

I think a painful bit of roadway is the Norton Bypass, dual carriageway at 40mph. It might just be me but it hardly feels like you're moving when below 40.