Feminist protesters vs new Playboy club

[Alien 10]

You however can't be born stupid & clumsy & reasonably aspire to be a brain suggestion.

 

To make it as a brain surgeon you need the innate mental capacity & fine motor control necessary to make it in what I understand to be quite a demanding profession.

 

Those born dumb or uncoordinated simply won't make it even with the best of educations. Similarly some people (though I would suggest a far smaller proportion than for brain surgeons) are unlucky enough not to have the physical attributes to make it as a mainstream sex worker no matter how much time they spend in the gym or applying beauty treatments.

 

I can't think of any profession that doesn't require a combination of inherent characteristics and applied effort, why do you single out professions in the sex industry as being somehow wrong for doing so?

 

 

I never said you could if "you're stupid and clumsy". Being thick doesn't stop you from aspiring no matter your capacity.

 

 

Who says they don't have the physical attributes? You? me? Hello mag? or a porn DVD?

 

I didn't single it out..the discussion is about the porn/sex industry.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Alien

[Suffragette1 10]

Most people wouldn't know who is and isn't feminist unless they are radical - possibly the reason for the misguidance.

 

I think wanting to look our best is exactly the same thing as being judged on how we look, why else would we want to look our best?

 

Most people wouldn't know,feminists come in all shapes and sizes. The majority of people express surprise when in real life, I nail my suffragette colours to the mast. Radical feminists, are these days, a minority but like with all extremes, they tend to be the most vociferous and attract the most attention.

 

Perhaps wanting to look one's best may translate into wanting to be judged on how one looks for some, it certainly isn't for me. However, as we have seen on this thread, you can't win. If you make an effort with your appearance, you're selling out or a hypocrite, if you don't then you're a jealous harridan who begrudges beauty and sexual allure in others and wishes to deny women the right to trade on their looks. Damned if you do, damned if you don't - same old same old set of criteria being used to judge women.

[Fishcake 10]

I think the answer is for the protesters and the dancers to all get greased up and fight it out in a naked pay per view event on sky sports, costing something like £15. Yes that will work. Of course there will be an intellectual element to it as well as they all must play naked chess and finally foxy boxing.............naked. Win win because 1p out of every pound goes to some womens charity or other that will keep the feminists happy.

 

Do I win?

[Suffragette1 10]

In answer to my own question that I posed some pages back, have just come across this:

 

In an interview in 1967, Hugh Hefner, founder of the Playboy empire, explained the ways in which women were like rabbits. The bunny "has a sexual meaning", he said, "because it's a fresh animal, shy, vivacious, jumping – sexy. First it smells you, then it escapes, then it comes back, and you feel like caressing it, playing with it. A girl resembles a bunny. Joyful, joking."

 

and

 

In these early days, each female employee also had to undergo a "complete" physical – including an internal examination and smear test – before starting work. After Steinem's article was published, Hefner sent her a letter saying he'd stopped these physicals because, although they were "a good idea", they could be "misunderstood and turned into something questionable".

 

 

Ref

 

That makes me love Hugh and his lovely empire even more.

[sccsux 10]

the discussion is about the porn/sex industry.

 

No it's not.

 

It's about a feminist protest at a private club.

[harvey19 541]

Most people wouldn't know,feminists come in all shapes and sizes. The majority of people express surprise when in real life, I nail my suffragette colours to the mast. Radical feminists, are these days, a minority but like with all extremes, they tend to be the most vociferous and attract the most attention.

 

Perhaps wanting to look one's best may translate into wanting to be judged on how one looks for some, it certainly isn't for me. However, as we have seen on this thread, you can't win. If you make an effort with your appearance, you're selling out or a hypocrite, if you don't then you're a jealous harridan who begrudges beauty and sexual allure in others and wishes to deny women the right to trade on their looks. Damned if you do, damned if you don't - same old same old set of criteria being used to judge women.

Everyone is judged on their appearance and as the old saying goes you don't get a second chance at first impressions.

Taking pride in ones appearance is really all that is necessary.

Different styles of dress send out different messages and some dress accordingly.

The above applies to both men and women.

[sccsux 10]

That makes me love Hugh and his lovely empire even more.

 

And so it should.

[boyfriday 21]

I think Suffragette1 managed it all on her own

Aye, cos I is very ugly and very jealous.

 

I know at least one of those attributes isn't true

[Suffragette1 10]

Everyone is judged on their appearance and as the old saying goes you don't get a second chance at first impressions.

Taking pride in ones appearance is really all that is necessary.

Different styles of dress send out different messages and some dress accordingly.

The above applies to both men and women.

 

Everyone is judged by their appearance to an extent, only women more so than men. And women are judged far more harshly and sexually objectified in a way that men just aren't. I will say it again, how many times on this thread have women protesters been referred to as being ugly? Have the male protesters (of which there are plenty on the photos) been called ugly? Have the male posters on here who are not in support of it?

[Fishcake 10]

Most people wouldn't know,feminists come in all shapes and sizes. The majority of people express surprise when in real life, I nail my suffragette colours to the mast. Radical feminists, are these days, a minority but like with all extremes, they tend to be the most vociferous and attract the most attention.

 

Perhaps wanting to look one's best may translate into wanting to be judged on how one looks for some, it certainly isn't for me. However, as we have seen on this thread, you can't win. If you make an effort with your appearance, you're selling out or a hypocrite, if you don't then you're a jealous harridan who begrudges beauty and sexual allure in others and wishes to deny women the right to trade on their looks. Damned if you do, damned if you don't - same old same old set of criteria being used to judge women.

 

In all seriousness, I think a well presented woman will get more credit and people will listen more to them than the old image of feminists, which frankly were media led anyway.

 

Millie tant springs to mind for me with the old school image. Having met Suffy I can say she isn't anything like the old school feminists and takes great pride in her appearance and for some reason I was shocked. She is smart both in her appearance and her intellect and only speaks up when she knows her apples, or oranges.........or subject matter.

 

Nothing wrong with looking good and being a feminist is there? Maybe some people prefer to think of them as being dungaree wearers with locked up hair and hairy arm pits as it makes them easier to dismiss.

[quisquose 10]

I see what you're saying, however, my argument, Plek, is the normalisation, mainstreaming and claims of 'harmless fun' of these types of pseudo-sex venues where breasts (and arse in the case of Playboy) are clearly how they are marketed along with the image of the sexed up servile woman, whether that be Hooters or Playboy. They validate the notion of women are playthings, adornments and whose raison d'etre is to be in servitude to men and this has a knock on effect on wider society. I personally do not buy the 'no one is forcing them to do it' or 'it's their choice' arguments to justify their existence, regardless of whether or not it is a choice. I'm not undermining sex work as a valid choice at all, just highlighting how superficially it may not be what it seems. I base this on having spoken to numerous sex workers over the years, through various lines of work and research, however, I appreciate that they will not speak for all women working in the industry.

 

I'm not sure that I agree with the abortion analogy, for a variety of reasons which haven't time to enumerate (school run beckons). However, I am in totally agreement with you about the inherent contradictions in some schools of feminist thinking. I'll never ever be part of the anti-prostitution/porn brigade and those who were/are anti-the pill and abortion I will never understand and have argued with them till I am blue in the face.

The feminist movement is certainly one where people can quite justifiably call themselves a feminist, and yet hardly agree with anything.

 

For what it's worth, I think my opinions are pretty close to Plek's, but they are also close to yours, and listening to where the grey area lies I think I'm getting to understand the reasons for the differences.

 

I absolutely agree with you about the "normalisation, mainstreaming" of women as sex objects, that that is the real issue.

 

Whilst I am sure we will agree on most situations where the line has been crossed, and I now think Hooters crossed that line, I don't think that most lap-dancing clubs do, precisely because I put them in the same bracket as prostitution and porn.

 

The girls that work there aren't "mainstreaming" their sexuality in public, they're satisfying the demand of a specific market that is already, and will always be, there. They work freelance, work in private, can earn good money. Speak to some of the girls, as I have with a couple, and you might find them quite a bit more empowered by their jobs than a lot of other employees. Quite surprisingly I found the two that I spoke to say that they had a lot of respect for their customers, but then I say that about ours!

 

The Playboy Club? Blah. I don't know. I accept Cyclone's observation that the protests were not about the club per se, but the wider issues of "mainstreaming" so fully support them.

 

As for the Playboy brand. I must listen to this later:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011c239/Thinking_Allowed_Playboy_Celebrity_politics

[Frank Sidney 11]

[quote=Suffragette1;

 

That makes me love Hugh and his lovely empire even more.

 

What about clubs like these. Do you think the customers are wrong and the club should be closed down?

 

http://jezebel.com/5749449/the-best-documentary-about-black-lesbian-strip-clubs-youll-see-today