Woodseats the nightmare continues

[Doctor Drew 10]

I'm just quoting what was said and done at the time, I am not speculating either way. All the people who used the route before might have returned, others might have joined them. I don't know and neither do you.

 

I am sure I have a copy of the "independent" study somewhere, I will look it up.

 

---------- Post added 13-03-2013 at 20:14 ----------

 

No, I said it wasn't the only deliverable of that scheme, there were many others.

 

Speculating is exactly what you were doing. I quote " Maybe they were right and traffic volumes increased over time"

 

What you actually said with reference to the scheme's objectives was "People on here seem to focus on the vehicle journey time as being the be all and end all of the scheme. It was not, it was a bus priority corridor scheme"

No, it wasn't. It's primary objective was to improve journey times. It failed

 

I'm intruiged. Why the inverted commas around independent? Are you suggesting the review was not independent?

[Planner1 438]

What you actually said with reference to the scheme's objectives was "People on here seem to focus on the vehicle journey time as being the be all and end all of the scheme. It was not, it was a bus priority corridor scheme"

No, it wasn't. It's primary objective was to improve journey times. It failed

 

Would you like to point out to me exactly where it is stated that journey time improvements for general traffic was the primary objective of the scheme?

[Doctor Drew 10]

Would you like to point out to me exactly where it is stated that journey time improvements for general traffic was the primary objective of the scheme?

 

I've posted the quote from the review in the Sheffield Star at least twice. I'll be more than happy to post it again for you.

 

"An independent review of the Woodseats scheme, by traffic experts AECOM in conjunction with the Highways Agency and local residents, concluded the primary objective to improve journey times for traffic on the A61 through the suburb was not met."

 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/shamed-department-facing-privatisation-1-1834718

 

Quite unequivocal wouldn't you say?

Are you going to answer my question about why you put inverted commas around the word "independent" when describing the review? Your use of what I believe are commonly described as scare quotes would seem to indicate that you were suggesting the review wasn't independent.

Can you clarify that the review was indeed independent and un-biased?

Edited March 14, 2013 by Doctor Drew
Addenda

[WallBuilder 10]

I suspect planner 1 would like to see a council document that refers to the 'primary objective' of the plan The Star is not always a totally reliable or accurate source of info after all, There's also the little problem of whether the improved journey was for general car users or for publuc transport

[Doctor Drew 10]

I suspect planner 1 would like to see a council document that refers to the 'primary objective' of the plan The Star is not always a totally reliable or accurate source of info after all, There's also the little problem of whether the improved journey was for general car users or for publuc transport

 

I doubt very much that a direct quote from the Star that misrepresented the facts on such a controversial topic would not have been jumped on with great vigour by SCC. It's at the very least unfair to speculate on the Star's reliability or accuracy without evidence to back up such a claim. The Star was quoting directly from AECOM's report. AECOM are a global company in the American Fortune 500 and would I'm sure view as libellous any published adulteration of their work. I think that alone would ensure the Star did their homework.

 

Regardless of whether the aims for the scheme were for public transport or private vehicles, and as it turns out the terminology used was "improve the general flow of traffic and improve journey times through the area" [1] the journey times were increased not decreased. Whatever the criterion used to assess the scheme, whether based on public or private transport the result is the same, a failure to improve journey times and increase traffic flow. Let's not also forget, an extremely expensive failure.

 

[1] Report of the Head of Development Services

PLAN4 TRANSPORT IN WOODSEATS SHOPPING CENTRE – RESPONSE TO OBJECTIONS TO PROPOSED TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDERS

http://meetings.sheffield.gov.uk/council-meetings/planninghighways/archive/south/agenda-13th-october-2003/plan4-transport---woodseats

[WallBuilder 10]

The Star does like to portray the council in a bad light sometimes it's been noted on here plenty of times how they get a story of some mis-fortune and then put up a picture of a despondent looking person to give a visial clue as to the unhappiness of the person concerned. I don't think it was a controvercial decision when the road layout was changed, most people probably didn't even notice it was going to happen the complaining only started after the event which the Star at some point picked up on. As to whether a newspaper can be thought of as always being factual, accurate and correct, well I can speak from personal experience that the Star is not always correct and accurate and in fact made things up to put in their headline to make for a more eye catching news story.

 

---------- Post added 14-03-2013 at 21:19 ----------

 

On the subject of cost I have never seen a cost for the re-introduction of the left turn into Abbey lane and the alteration of the lights at that particular point of the junction. I could point out that where the pavements through the area were re-shaped to channel water into a central gullet the council got the number of required drains quite wrong so you get rain water puddling badly. At least the road system was altered again although it hasn't improved things a lot so be grateful that something was done. If anyone has any sensible solutions to decrease the amount of traffic wanting to go through Woodseats maybe you should speak up, notice I said 'sensible'

[Doctor Drew 10]

The Star does like to portray the council in a bad light sometimes it's been noted on here plenty of times how they get a story of some mis-fortune and then put up a picture of a despondent looking person to give a visial clue as to the unhappiness of the person concerned. I don't think it was a controvercial decision when the road layout was changed, most people probably didn't even notice it was going to happen the complaining only started after the event which the Star at some point picked up on. As to whether a newspaper can be thought of as always being factual, accurate and correct, well I can speak from personal experience that the Star is not always correct and accurate and in fact made things up to put in their headline to make for a more eye catching news story.

 

---------- Post added 14-03-2013 at 21:19 ----------

 

On the subject of cost I have never seen a cost for the re-introduction of the left turn into Abbey lane and the alteration of the lights at that particular point of the junction. I could point out that where the pavements through the area were re-shaped to channel water into a central gullet the council got the number of required drains quite wrong so you get rain water puddling badly. At least the road system was altered again although it hasn't improved things a lot so be grateful that something was done. If anyone has any sensible solutions to decrease the amount of traffic wanting to go through Woodseats maybe you should speak up, notice I said 'sensible'

 

The cost as far as I can ascertain was £4m for the initial scheme with £600k for the amended Abbey Lane junction. As for the rest of your post, I'm sorry but I'm struggling to see the relevance. Are you suggesting that because the Star use photographs to support the text in human interest stories that makes them unreliable and inaccurate with regard to this particular case?

 

As for calling for the public to provide a solution, you're agreeing then, albeit indirectly, with my assertion that the planners have failed. If your preference is for the untrained general public to plan the city's streets you can hardly be said to have faith in our existing planners. If the council are prepared to pay me the same salary as the existing failures in the planning department. I'll be happy to have a pop at the problem. As I suspect would most people. It seems a very secure job. How many of the people on this forum could make a ****-up at work to the tune of nearly £5m and stroll in the following Monday whistling Dixie?

[Fudbeer 12]

Geez if it was not for the amount we paid for the "improvements" reading that star article would be pure comedy.

 

Improving journey times by having a light that goes red even when there is nothing comming and then spending £300k removing it!

 

You really couldn't make it up!

 

Surely someone has to be accountable for this huge waste of money.

[WallBuilder 10]

No just mentioned the photo's that the Star do like to use to remind other users memories of stories reported by the Star and commented on this forum. I wonder if you could find out how many stories have been reported on by the Star have been in praise of the council and how many being negative, I suspect the negative outway the praiseworthy.

I thought the forum was about allowing people to discuss issues and suggest solutions, so many users find something to complain about and then don't offer alternate solutions, some really daft solutions are offered that would never be considered acceptable by the many others who would be affected by the solutions. Planners may get things wrong sometimes that's unavoidable but if I want some-one who critisises something to then offer a better solution then I'm entitled to ask. So as a member of the public there are a few things I may like to see being done.The roads going up by the side of tesco and some of the others I'd turn into one way, access from Chesterfield road going up the hill. I'd close off the dale, and then utilise the top end of it as a buss pull in stop I'd also put in double yellow lines on those side roads if they can't be made one way so no-one could park near the bottom as that can often cause problems as cars waiting to pull off those roads hold up traffic wanting to turn up them. The highway planners may of looked at such idea's and found out they wouldn't work or maybe they'll try them and then find out that although it removes one problem it creates anothe.

[WallBuilder 10]

Some of the planned works were not good, fine replace the broken pavement surface, make them wider so easier for the many people walking but as I've said they screwed up with the drainage. You might be pleased to know that I'm going to be asking Aney to sort this out as and when they do the work in Woodseats. The pavement levels were altered outside the Yorkshire bank and that parade of shops as well which removed the nasty step up onto the shop frontage that was another good bit in the plans. The designation of car parking bays has also been good as it has stopped vehicles from parking on Chesterfield road right on the corner making vehicle line of sight better. I happen to like the increased numbers of crossings as I've said I'm not as nimble on my feet as I used to be so road crossing is safer. So obviously not all the money was wasted and if or as mistakes were made i hope the planners learn from such mistakes and don't repeat them elsewhere.

[JME52K 10]

The roads going up by the side of tesco and some of the others I'd turn into one way, access from Chesterfield road going up the hill. I'd close off the dale, and then utilise the top end of it as a buss pull in stop I'd also put in double yellow lines on those side roads if they can't be made one way so no-one could park near the bottom as that can often cause problems as cars waiting to pull off those roads hold up traffic wanting to turn up them. The highway planners may of looked at such idea's and found out they wouldn't work or maybe they'll try them and then find out that although it removes one problem it creates anothe.

 

Some good ideas there WallBuilder, but cars would STILL park on the double yellows round Tesco and Williams. I've lived in Woodseats for nearly 40 years but I haven't parked on Chesterfield Road to shop for about ten years. It's somewhere I walk to, either to catch a bus or just buy a few items I can comfortably carry home.

[Mecky 10]

Catch a bus then