The PIT   10 #133 Posted April 9, 2011 The TSG appear to be out of control, Harwood certainly was. Say a member of the public pushes a TSG officer and they subsequently die. What would happen?   Instant arrest, instant court, case proven guilty and then new Government laws rushed through to further reduce the right to protest. By instant I mean as fast as the police and courts can operate at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
frank ryan   10 #134 Posted April 9, 2011 They can't bring that verdict in, can they? Though it was just "unlawful killing" but without naming names?  I think it depends on the judge's direction Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
frank ryan   10 #135 Posted April 9, 2011 They can't bring that verdict in, can they? Though it was just "unlawful killing" but without naming names?  no, you're right , it can't name an individual Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
spindrift   10 #136 Posted April 9, 2011 I'm quite a large chap but I keep myself to myself. This can sometimes provoke people who have a tendency to bullying, they see passivity as a challenge.   Tomlinson refused to cower before the rampaging Harwood. Look at Tomlinson's demeanour, he's not aggressive at all, he almost ignores Harwood completely!  Harwood, being a nutjob who refused to wait in the van, saw this as a challenge. He was outraged at Tomlinson ignoring him and not being frightened off him, so harwood drew his baton and smashed Tomlinson on the leg.  Even this didn't provoke a reaction, which of course infuriated Harwood, as it would enrage all bullies.  So Harwood killed him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
frank ryan   10 #137 Posted April 9, 2011 I'm quite a large chap but I keep myself to myself. This can sometimes provoke people who have a tendency to bullying, they see passivity as a challenge.  Tomlinson refused to cower before the rampaging Harwood. Look at Tomlinson's demeanour, he's not aggressive at all, he almost ignores Harwood completely!  Harwood, being a nutjob who refused to wait in the van, saw this as a challenge. He was outraged at Tomlinson ignoring him and not being frightened off him, so harwood drew his baton and smashed Tomlinson on the leg.  Even this didn't provoke a reaction, which of course infuriated Harwood, as it would enrage all bullies.  So Harwood killed him.  that's basically it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hots on   10 #138 Posted April 9, 2011  So Harwood killed him.  Calm down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
sccsux   10 #139 Posted April 9, 2011 Calm down.  I think you'll find he is calm, and calmly stating that which is obvious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Eater Sundae   12 #140 Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) I'm quite a large chap but I keep myself to myself. This can sometimes provoke people who have a tendency to bullying, they see passivity as a challenge.  Tomlinson refused to cower before the rampaging Harwood. Look at Tomlinson's demeanour, he's not aggressive at all, he almost ignores Harwood completely!  Harwood, being a nutjob who refused to wait in the van, saw this as a challenge. He was outraged at Tomlinson ignoring him and not being frightened off him, so harwood drew his baton and smashed Tomlinson on the leg.  Even this didn't provoke a reaction, which of course infuriated Harwood, as it would enrage all bullies.  So Harwood killed him.  ...so Harwood pushed him. He fell over - not a totally unusual result of being pushed, but neither was it a forgone conclusion. He subsequently died - very much an unexpected outcome of falling over. There would be clearly no expectation that pushing someone would result in their death. Edited April 9, 2011 by Eater Sundae typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
spindrift   10 #141 Posted April 9, 2011 .. There would be clearly no expectation that pushing someone would result in their death.  Possibly.  Academic, since he did die as a result of Harwood's actions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Eater Sundae   12 #142 Posted April 9, 2011 Possibly. Academic, since he did die as a result of Harwood's actions.  Absolutely NOT academic. Your earlier post said "So Harwood killed him" - clearly implying he killed him because Tomlinson had "infuriated Harwood". Intent is very important. You implied Harwood had intended to kill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
spindrift   10 #143 Posted April 9, 2011 Absolutely NOT academic. Your earlier post said "So Harwood killed him" - clearly implying he killed him because Tomlinson had "infuriated Harwood". Intent is very important. You implied Harwood had intended to kill.  I implied no such thing, I simply stated the facts, Harwood's actions led to a death.  MANSLAUGHTER= no intent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Hots on   10 #144 Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) I implied no such thing, I simply stated the facts, Harwood's actions led to a death. MANSLAUGHTER= no intent.  Oh yes you did, you said that PC harwood killed Ian Tomlinson because he annoyed him. Edited April 9, 2011 by Hots on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...