Labour call for Bankers windfall tax to be re-introduced

[wednesday1 10]

Something unfortunately the Tories on the forum don't seem to be in agreement with the rest of us about. Perhaps because over 50% of their parties funding comes from the banks.

 

It makes me cry when people talk about the need to slash public services to the poorest in society, and problems with the public sector with very little evidence and with those bearing the brunt of the cuts those least responsible, those that benefited least out of the boom years.

 

And whilst they do this the elephant in the room they are trying to hide is we are in a situation caused by the incompetent mismanagement of those backing the party in power at the moment.... and of course it is all Labour's fault to them. Whilst they point the finger at the weakest and kick them when they are down, bleed them dry some more.

 

 

Yep, they don't want to be bite the hand that feeds it.

Whether we are personally affected by the cuts or not, we all have to live in the same society afterall. These changes the ConDems are proposing for the public sevices were not in the Libs or Cons manifestos' it is a national scandal what they are trying to get away with. Let's just hope they don't.

[evildrneil 14]

The subprime mortgage crisis happened in the US. What happened there was people being sold mortgages the mortgage lenders knew they couldn't pay. The fact they were also selling them variable rate mortgages knowing full well what the inevitable consequence of their years spent trying to hide the problems by mixing up bad sub-prime debt with prime debts to sell to each other was a house of cards they knew would fall down.... all the time sellling people variable rate mortgages. It was that that was the cause not my mortgage or mortgages in the UK. There have been very few repossessions here, compared with the US.

 

I'm afraid that you've picked on only one of the causes of the subprime crisis. Yes some were sold wrongly but there was also a massive increase in mortgage fraud and many chose to speculate on house prices ignoring the basic tennet that house-prices can't increase forever. There are always going to people who want something for nothing and you can hardly blame someone else when misguided money making speculation goes tits up.

[evildrneil 14]

And that is what the thread is about, reintroducing the tax on the Bankers bonuses!

 

No it's not - from the very title it shows that this is intended to be just a childish ******* match between the ideologically blinkered. All that's going to happen as soon as you introduced the L word in the title was ideological left and right would get involved and bicker between each other while studiously ignoring the real scope of the problem and in the process further turning the sane middle ground off politics even more.

[Mister M 1,625]

No it's not - from the very title it shows that this is intended to be just a childish ******* match between the ideologically blinkered. All that's going to happen as soon as you introduced the L word in the title was ideological left and right would get involved and bicker between each other while studiously ignoring the real scope of the problem and in the process further turning the sane middle ground off politics even more.

 

Not sure I agree with this. I think on a highly political subject like the one being discussed on this thread, keeping party politics out is going to be nigh on impossible.

Discussion about banking deregulation, the crash and the aftermath of public sector cuts and services withdrawn are all going to be coloured by the political standpoint you have.

If the 'middle ground' don't like political debate then it's their loss and not expect not to think about things more deeply

[evildrneil 14]

If the 'middle ground' don't like political debate then it's their loss and not expect not to think about things more deeply

 

It's nothing to do with not liking political debate as becoming more and more irate with the blinkered ideological views of the party propagandists. The left blame the banks and individuals are all poor, sweet innocent victims. The right blame the people and the banks have been fraudulently taken in by malevolent users. Proposals put forward by either group would obviously only address half the real problem and until they take their ideological blinkers off they are only ever going to be able to come up with partial solutions to complex problems.

[Anna Glypta 10]

They have been telling banks to lend more after the crisis when the banks stopped lending and they were receiving bailout money and various forms of stimulus...

 

So why should HSBC be expected to lend any money to anyone who it wouldn't normally do as part of its day to day business.

[Anna Glypta 10]

You may have been advised to take a variable rate - but it was not forced on you. To blame the big bad evil banks solely is wrong. Some took out loans they knew they couldn't afford based on naivety, fraud or just plain misguided hope. The bubble burst - as it always does - and the fallout needs to be cleaned up and lessons learnt. One of the lessons is that lending and borrowing is a two sided process. Banks should be more careful who they lend to and borrowers should be more careful what they borrow. For either party to carry the can entirely gives and entirely unbalanced view of the situation.

 

You can't always be sure that the person taking out a loan or mortgage is telling the whole truth.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/251032.stm

Edited March 15, 2011 by Anna Glypta

[evildrneil 14]

You can't always be sure that the person taking out a loan or mortgage is telling the whole truth.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/251032.stm

 

I haven't in any way claimed that it is - the lending/borrowing process is two sided and problems can occur on both sides.

[Vague_Boy 10]

Why don't the ConDems do what Labour are suggesting and reintroduce Labours Bankers windfall tax to promote economic growth???

 

Why didn't Labour do this when they were in office?

 

And why does your post read like something submitted by Labour Party head office for distribution by a loyal collection of perma-trolls?

[Vague_Boy 10]

What makes you think you know better than all the reports publically available on the issue and expert opinion?

 

Personally it's because I saw this crisis coming and they did not.

[Vague_Boy 10]

The subprime mortgage crisis happened in the US. What happened there was people being sold mortgages the mortgage lenders knew they couldn't pay.

 

Ahem.... liar loans?

 

Controversial "self-certification" mortgages – dubbed "liar loans" – may be banned after the Financial Services Authority revealed today that almost half of all Britain's new home loans at the height of the property boom were being granted without checks on earnings.

 

Sheffield financial adviser jailed over frauds

 

Alan Hill, 52, of Sheffield, set up a "small industry for the dishonestly inclined", Southwark Crown Court heard.

 

He created forged documents including tax certificates and wage slips.

 

Fellow conspirators Mark Bates, 49, of Chesterfield, and Anthony Gould, 47, of Leeds, each received four-year jail sentences for their role in the crimes.

 

Hill, of Darfield Avenue, Owlthorpe, was convicted of 15 offences, including the creation of false documents and helping to secure false mortgage applications.

 

LINK

 

Britain's Subprime Mortgage Lending Industry Revealed - BBC Panorama

 

The BBC's flagship documentary programme, Panorama investigates the blatant abuses and fraud that has taken place in the Britain's own Subprime mortgage market, which is primed for a crash US style.

 

A quote from the programme - "With mortgages regularly being sold to people on benefits and some home loans being given at up to 16 times the applicant's salary, Panorama finds out if the mis-selling of mortgages to those with bad credit records could cause a financial crisis in Britain similar to that in the US."

 

LINK

 

Britain's own subprime crisis 'is underway'

 

Troubled Northern Rock stages retreat from sub-prime market

 

FSA slams UK sub-prime mortgage market

U.K.'s Subprime Crisis May Be Worse Than U.S.'s

 

Are you at risk? The UK sub-prime map

 

 

And finally here's a link to a 2003 edition of The Money Program, which investigated fraud in the mortgage market, including "liar loans".

 

LINK

 

The evidence was there, odd then that the then government and the FSA took no action whatsoever.

 

While it may suit some (for ideological reasons) to claim that it was entirely an American phenomenon, the truth is that we had our own subprime industry in the UK, we just didn't call it that.

 

Which of course, makes all the difference.

[F. Sidebottom 10]

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reports that

 

"Many mortgage lenders set the bar so low that lenders simply took eager borrowers’ qualifications on faith, often with a willful disregard for a borrower’s ability to pay."

 

http://c0182732.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/fcic_final_report_conclusions.pdf

 

Its conclusions are that it was an out of control banking sector that was the cause selling mortgages to people it knew would be unable to pay... not the people being sold in to debt defrauding th banks. It was the banks and mortgage lenders defrauding the people they were selling mortgages to that they knew they would default on.

 

What makes you think you know better than all the reports publically available on the issue and expert opinion?

 

Maybe you can find one where the banks are absolved of responsibility and it is all down to those sold mortgages they couldn't pay? mmm I don't think you will find one.

 

So, are we saying that each and every person who defaulted on their mortgage was tempted into a bank with a big carrot and beaten with a stick until they signed up for a mortgage they couldn't afford?

 

I don't think so.

 

We've all seen the forms - they are pretty clear about what they expect you to detail in relation to your own financial standing. It relies on honesty. Something which quite obviously a lot of peolpe don't have. Yet we end up paying the price.

 

Similar to the issues with endowment mortgages. Why is it that those that were too THICK to understand that endowments MIGHT NOT mature to the level that was required to pay off the mortgage, and they may have to pay a little longer, end up being able to sue, when those of us who were intelligent enough to realise this and took precautions/actions, end up paying more over the long term, and end up with the same? It's allowing the irresponsible ones to get away with it!

 

And now we have a situation where people borrowed what they KNEW they couldn't afford, or lied about what they could afford, and everyone else is to blame.

 

Defend it as much as you like, but if those people who couldn't afford it hadn't walked into those banks etc. and signed up to repayments they couldn't afford, this wouldn't have happened.

 

And it makes me cry when people like you defend them.

Edited March 16, 2011 by F. Sidebottom