Is Satan really a bad person?

[salsafan 10]

Wow...

 

Again though, if we are to interpret Satan as a metaphor, are we also to interpret God as a metaphor?

Do you ever read history? Or Philosophy. I think if you have to admit to this, is that, the Bible is indeed a written text. Possibly formulated by many writers. Yet there had been some kind of truths about some of the stories written in the bible itself. Nobody is claiming that everything written within it, is factual truth and it happened in history.

 

The one thing I do not understand from people like yourself is, how can your mind, wired the way it is by modern standard, not accept the differences between yourself, and someone else who do not see the world the same way as you are wired? Which is that, some accepts the actual written stories within it as a way to remind oneself of one's mortality in this lifetime and therefore one should indeed use one's time for greatness.

 

Religion has never been one for literalness. Also, if you trace back religion, it was indeed used as a way to govern people. Today's English law is also written based on strong ethics too. What modern day "rationalists" who tries to use this logical deduction method to reduce everything that was good about humans into nothing. Also, they now try to reduce the history and the past as if it was something else that it was never advertised itself to be. All for the sake of what? One's ego? Or One's deductive intelligentsia ??

 

England still supposedly have a high number of Christians, or people who call themselves Christians, but by no means do they live with Christian values at all ! Fighting, in the supposed name of "debates" is what a lot of people get their kicks out of.

Edited September 21, 2011 by salsafan

[metaphoria 10]

Wow...

 

Again though, if we are to interpret Satan as a metaphor, are we also to interpret God as a metaphor?

 

Yes.

 

Either neither are real, or both are.

[RootsBooster 24]

Do you ever read history? Or Philosophy. I think if you have to admit to this, is that, the Bible is indeed a written text. Possibly formulated by many writers. Yet there had been some kind of truths about some of the stories written in the bible itself. Nobody is claiming that everything written within it, is factual truth and it happened in history.

 

The one thing I do not understand from people like yourself is, how can your mind, wired the way it is by modern standard, not accept the differences between yourself, and someone else who do not see the world the same way as you are wired? Which is that, some accepts the actual written stories within it as a way to remind oneself of one's mortality in this lifetime and therefore one should indeed use one's time for greatness.

 

Religion has never been one for literalness. Also, if you trace back religion, it was indeed used as a way to govern people. Today's English law is also written based on strong ethics too. What modern day "rationalists" who tries to use this logical deduction method to reduce everything that was good about human into nothing. Also, they now try to reduce the history and the pass as if it was something else that it was never advertised itself to be. All for the sake of what? One's ego? Or One's deductive intelligentsia ??

 

England still supposedly have a high number of Christians, or people who call themselves Christians, but by no means do they live with Christian values at all ! Fighting, in the supposed name of "debates" is what a lot of people get their kicks out of.

 

Well I guess you've got me all pegged

[RootsBooster 24]

Do you ever read history? Or Philosophy. I think if you have to admit to this, is that, the Bible is indeed a written text. Possibly formulated by many writers. Yet there had been some kind of truths about some of the stories written in the bible itself. Nobody is claiming that everything written within it, is factual truth and it happened in history.

And I'm not claiming it isn't

 

The one thing I do not understand from people like yourself is, how can your mind, wired the way it is by modern standard, not accept the differences between yourself, and someone else who do not see the world the same way as you are wired? Which is that, some accepts the actual written stories within it as a way to remind oneself of one's mortality in this lifetime and therefore one should indeed use one's time for greatness.

I DO accept the differences between myself and others who don't see the world the same way as I am wired. Furthermore, I try to UNDERSTAND WHY they see things their way by taking part in these discussions.

The one thing I do not understand from people like yourself is, how can your mind, wired the way it is by whatever, know so little about someone yet assume/presume so much about them, and apparently interpret every post they make as some kind of hostile attack, on every thread.

 

Religion has never been one for literalness. Also, if you trace back religion, it was indeed used as a way to govern people. Today's English law is also written based on strong ethics too. What modern day "rationalists" who tries to use this logical deduction method to reduce everything that was good about humans into nothing. Also, they now try to reduce the history and the past as if it was something else that it was never advertised itself to be. All for the sake of what? One's ego? Or One's deductive intelligentsia ??

I can't speak for others, but all I am doing is questioning and discussing these things to further understand other people's beliefs. I don't try and reduce anythingt good about us into nothing.

 

England still supposedly have a high number of Christians, or people who call themselves Christians, but by no means do they live with Christian values at all ! Fighting, in the supposed name of "debates" is what a lot of people get their kicks out of.

In all these threads tonight, you seem to be the one doing the fighting, or trying to make it into a fight.

Edited September 21, 2011 by RootsBooster
typo error

[salsafan 10]

Well I guess you've got me all pegged

You should indeed read the bible, as many of the stories are nothing but description of human dynamics. It reads like one big whole psychology book with numerous examples. It is supposed to be used as a form of reflection on one's actions.

 

Even though, I am not a Christian, I know and understand the value of it in society and the role of it in any civilisation. It is really there as a moral guidance to people, full stop. To enter a church or to pray, is to actually acknowledge, and to have time to reflect on one's action every week. Some people feel that they benefit from church. Other people feels that it adds no value at all. Each to their own.

 

God is said to be made from 3 parts. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. (The concept, the actual human form, and then the spiritual form.) If you read a little bit about Christianity, and then compare this with Freud's concepts, there are a lot of commonalities. The Self, Ego, and so forth. It really all points to the fact that, one should indeed lead a meaningful life, free of evil and angy thoughts. Do good work for others and for yourself. Live a very honest life, do not lie, both to yourself, and to others. Admit to mistakes, and be responsible for your own actions. Do not let fear consume, and make you lie. At the end of your life, you will reach enlightenment of sorts and can find peace with your heart and your soul.

 

When one synchronises their actions, with their moral values from their minds, and life a live of harmony with others, it is then said to reach have reached Enlightenment. One is living a "Godly" life, and is not taken away by greed, fear, or ego by "Satan".

Edited September 21, 2011 by salsafan

[salsafan 10]

And I'm not claiming it isn't

Because your action deduce things which is not thought of by others as true, or even remotely as acceptable as the truth. That is conceptually true. Or in another term, ETHICAL truth. I do not know whether you understand that the way your thought process works, is definitely different to that of others.

 

I DO accept the differences between myself and others who don't see the world the same way as I am wired. Furthermore, I try to UNDERSTAND WHY they see things their way by taking part in these discussions.

The one thing I do not understand from people like yourself is, how can your mind, wired the way it is by whatever, know so little about someone yet assume/presume so much about them, and apparently interpret every post they make as some kind of hostile attack, on every thread.

You do not accept that at all.Cos if you accept that, then why do you go challenging for the "truth". What truth? Why don't you ask someone respectfully, "Hi, I am not a Christian, but can you tell me why you think this is, in your own words, as I do not understand."

 

Why we see things this way? It is because we are wired differently! Accept that. If you accept it. Then why question it? If you question it, exactly what does one need to say, and in which style of method to get you to really comprehend and to drop it?? Why should someone else makes such a big effort to make you understand, when really, they are not here to be your walking dictionary. You should totally check out a personality concept by Myers Briggs. I think it shall show you the difference between people. Some people think in a logical way so much more. Others thing in a more empathic way so much more. They are intuitive in understanding the moral values very easily as you understand logic.

 

Someone like myself can understand religion, any religion very conceptually and very easily too. I can understand any ideas, and can intuitively derive in a big picture to small details kind of person.

 

I do not interpret every post made as a hostile attach. Though, I can see where people are coming from often than not. Whether it is physically experienced. Or conceptually discussing an idea. I have clear categories and understanding in my mind. Just like, you were not able to understand the previous viewpoint about feminism. I think empathetic people can indeed deduce human dynamics so much more easily, than rationalists can.

 

I can't speak for others, but all I am doing is questioning and discussing these things to further understand other people's beliefs. I don't try and reduce anythingt good about us into nothing.

The way you "challenge" and "mock" someone's beliefs, will create a demotivated individual from being a believer into a non-believer. You literally break them basically! Exactly why should anyone be anyone's lecturer ? You believe in logic. Who taught you that then? Reductionism. Socractic methods. Deductive reasonings. Who exactly taught you that? Why were you born that way, why ?

 

Again, it is down to this isn't it. One person's action is thought to mean X, but then the perception and to the receiver, is that of Y. Again, why is religion not necessary as a form of reflective idea and method for one's moral action and conducts? Self censorship and reflection is really what religion is ALL about. Not throttling someone online metaphorically for an answer of their core beliefs, until you break them down, and break down their values such that they are no longer a woman or a man. (Remind me, why is this not a mean Satanic action ?)

 

In all these threads tonight, you seem to be the one doing the fighting, or trying to make it into a fight.

I am mimicing what others have done. So, this is a great example of what religion is about. If you mirrored someone, and that they cannot take it, exactly why would you dish it out? Polar opposites. Why do you suddenly see this as a "fight" and no longer as a "debate" ??

[RootsBooster 24]

Because your action deduce things which is not thought of by others as true, or even remotely as acceptable as the truth. That is conceptually true. Or in another term, ETHICAL truth. I do not know whether you understand that the way your thought process works, is definitely different to that of others.

 

 

You do not accept that at all.Cos if you accept that, then why do you go challenging for the "truth". What truth? Why don't you ask someone respectfully, "Hi, I am not a Christian, but can you tell me why you think this is, in your own words, as I do not understand."

 

Why we see things this way? It is because we are wired differently! Accept that. If you accept it. Then why question it? If you question it, exactly what does one need to say, and in which style of method to get you to really comprehend and to drop it?? Why should someone else makes such a big effort to make you understand, when really, they are not here to be your walking dictionary. You should totally check out a personality concept by Myers Briggs. I think it shall show you the difference between people. Some people think in a logical way so much more. Others thing in a more empathic way so much more. They are intuitive in understanding the moral values very easily as you understand logic.

 

Someone like myself can understand religion, any religion very conceptually and very easily too. I can understand any ideas, and can intuitively derive in a big picture to small details kind of person.

 

I do not interpret every post made as a hostile attach. Though, I can see where people are coming from often than not. Whether it is physically experienced. Or conceptually discussing an idea. I have clear categories and understanding in my mind. Just like, you were not able to understand the previous viewpoint about feminism. I think empathetic people can indeed deduce human dynamics so much more easily, than rationalists can.

 

 

The way you "challenge" and "mock" someone's beliefs, will create a demotivated individual from being a believer into a non-believer. You literally break them basically! Exactly why should anyone be anyone's lecturer ? You believe in logic. Who taught you that then? Reductionism. Socractic methods. Deductive reasonings. Who exactly taught you that? Why were you born that way, why ?

 

Again, it is down to this isn't it. One person's action is thought to mean X, but then the perception and to the receiver, is that of Y. Again, why is religion not necessary as a form of reflective idea and method for one's moral action and conducts? Self censorship and reflection is really what religion is ALL about. Not throttling someone online metaphorically for an answer of their core beliefs, until you break them down, and break down their values such that they are no longer a woman or a man. (Remind me, why is this not a mean Satanic action ?)

 

 

I am mimicing what others have done. So, this is a great example of what religion is about. If you mirrored someone, and that they cannot take it, exactly why would you dish it out? Polar opposites. Why do you suddenly see this as a "fight" and no longer as a "debate" ??

 

Just which of my posts exactly have you interpreted all this from? I'm not asking for another essay, just some post numbers.

[Karis 11]

Just which of my posts exactly have you interpreted all this from? I'm not asking for another essay, just some post numbers.

 

Roots: you know better than to feed the trolls. Every one of Salsafan's posts turns into accusations, judgements, and arguments. It's all: I have the ability to think this way - and you dont!

 

Really, you're on to a loser here as this is a broken record we've all seen way too many times before.

 

My Diagnosis: Too much speaking and not nearly enough humility.

[RootsBooster 24]

Roots: you know better than to feed the trolls. Every one of Salsafan's posts turns into accusations, judgements, and arguments. It's all: I have the ability to think this way - and you dont!

 

Really, you're on to a loser here as this is a broken record we've all seen way too many times before.

 

My Diagnosis: Too much speaking and not nearly enough humility.

 

To be honest, yesterday was the first time I've noticed any of her posts/threads and was quite shocked at the bombardment of hostility I recieved! I've never before come across someone so accusing, assuming and judgemental (like you said), it's quite funny actually, all the talk about "not accepting that others think differently" and thriving on arguments etc. If you actually read the posts (if the effort can be made) it's quite clear who doesn't accept other's ways of thinking and thrives on arguments.

[Karis 11]

To be honest, yesterday was the first time I've noticed any of her posts/threads and was quite shocked at the bombardment of hostility I recieved! I've never before come across someone so accusing, assuming and judgemental (like you said), it's quite funny actually, all the talk about "not accepting that others think differently" and thriving on arguments etc. If you actually read the posts (if the effort can be made) it's quite clear who doesn't accept other's ways of thinking and thrives on arguments.

 

Every thread turns into a battlefield, sadly.

 

But, if you were wondering: it's "clearly" us that's in the wrong

[RootsBooster 24]

Every thread turns into a battlefield, sadly.

 

But, if you were wondering: it's "clearly" us that's in the wrong

 

THIS thread was actually doing pretty well, without any arguing, until now.

 

I will try to salvage it by building on one of Salsafan's points:

Some people take the bible metaphorically and SOME take it literally. Some do a bit of both. Even if we take Satan (putting a literal or metaphoric God aside) as a metaphor for the "evil" side in us, do we really HAVE an evil side? (assuming that evil as a force exists) or is evil itself just a metaphor for decisions made from other experiences/factors/influences in life? ie, an abusive upbringing etc.

[Karis 11]

I certainly don't believe in evil as a force.

 

People do actions which can be described as "evil", but actions are neither good nor evil; they're just actions.