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The People's Supermarket

Would you be willing to support a sheffield people's supermarket  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you be willing to support a sheffield people's supermarket

    • Definitely - I would sign up straight away
      26
    • I would consider it once it was up and running
      12
    • I would consider doing my shopping there
      3
    • Not interested at all
      8


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I don't agree with you there. There is a load of people from certain demographics that understand the consequences of growing monopolies like Tescos, in regards to anyone further down the value chain getting a raw deal. If Tesco had a 90% share of the market would this drive prices down? no, it wouldnt and thats where we are heading currently.

 

Not just talking about hippies or 'right on' lefties here. If we are moving towards this 'big society' well what better place to start then community supermarkets. Like the program said, it is just changing perceptions on how we shop and not expecting a mountain of food at our supermarkets (which gets wasted anyway).

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one thing i thought people would pick up on in the link i'd posted about the shop in devon was this:

 

'The shop's managers said a grant from the South West Regional Development Agency had enabled them to stock more products, leading to increased sales.'

 

the business wasnt successful by growing its customer base organically. it has taken it two years and a 'bail out' by local government funds to get it to a position where it was viable.

 

to me that underlines that the original principle of having people invest in the shop and then using all takings to increase their offering and thus grow further didnt work. they had to get money from somewhere in order to get the stock in order to entice the customers. prior to that they were failing to compete with the likes of tesco, and not getting the trade to keep them going. vicious cycle - who wants to go to a shop that has no stock in? no stock, no customers, no stock is not a healthy business plan!

 

like steveroberts says, what can the shop offer that tesco/morrisons doesnt that the mass public are willing to invest time and money in? not everyone buys into utopian ideoligies, most people just want to do their shopping and get on with their busy lives.

 

And what is wrong with goverment subsidies? the problem has been the governement has been relunctant to tackle corporate giants because of the FDI factor and its one of the issues I have with FREE MARKET economies (although there are many good points :). But, I dont see Tesco's relieving this recession do you? say for every peoples supermarket (protected by the govt) there were 3 Tesco's I dont see why this wouldnt work- its giving people a choice of where to shop rather than being dictated to.

Edited by TJC1
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And what is wrong with goverment subsidies? the problem has been that governement has been relunctant to tackle corporate giants because of the FDI factor. But, I dont see Tesco's relieving this recession do you?

 

i havent a problem with government subsidies, im sure many small businesses qualify for them, deserve them and take them, and good luck to them.

 

it just seemed to highlight to me that the basic tenet of the proposition was that the business would grow and be successful on the popularity of its proposition - ethical and ideoligical, something that the public would 'buy into' and would demonstrate that the people were in fact sticking two fingers up at the giant monopolies. that initial loyalty to their 'brand/selling point' would enable them to grow and sustain themselves.

 

but it didnt pan out like that. until there was a sizeable cash injection into the business to make it a viable alternative for the customer, the proposition alone wasnt enough to satisfy the public. the ideoligies have to run alongside the wants of the customer, and availability is one of those key things a business like that would have a struggle to maintain.

 

i just think that that type of shop would only be a success if someone was prepared to donate a sizable chunk of their own money (with no return) to set it up initially so they have a firm grounding on which to build and draw in customers and gain their loyalty.

 

opening a shop up with hardly any stock because you couldnt afford it, and then relying on the money generated from selling the hardly any stock to buy in hardly anymore stock is destined to fail, as todays customers expect more - basically to be able to buy what they want.

 

agreed this expectation is based on what people get from supermarkets, and a lot would have to be done to change that perception; and as much as i think that it could work, i think it could only work if there was that large cash donation at the start to set it up right and then changing peoples' perceptions, rather than opening a shop thats a bit pointless for the customers cos it doesnt have any stock, where the customer walks away thinking thats its a nice idea, but i still havent got the stuff i came in to buy.

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Sounds to me like there Business model was not up to scratch.

Many, many types of Businesses dont just grow 'organically', they need a cash injection and most lose money in the first months / years.

Then again there are many Business operating as a co-operative successfully and some very successfully. There still needs to be Business acumen behind altruistic motives.

 

The peoples supermarket appears like a great idea, it really appealed to me, I just think parts of there model are difficult to execute (like the work for nothing/ membership fee thing)

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50% would sign up and 25% would give it a try according to the poll.

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Sounds to me like there Business model was not up to scratch.

Many, many types of Businesses dont just grow 'organically', they need a cash injection and most lose money in the first months / years.

Then again there are many Business operating as a co-operative successfully and some very successfully. There still needs to be Business acumen behind altruistic motives.

 

The peoples supermarket appears like a great idea, it really appealed to me, I just think parts of there model are difficult to execute (like the work for nothing/ membership fee thing)

 

the idea behind it seems great, its not until the 'buts' get looked into that the can of worms is opened.

the very foundation seems to be missing from the business plan though - the initial investment to start it all.

 

it would have to be a very dedicated philanthropist to invest thousands of their own money, with no return, to set it up and build it up at a loss for the first year or two and then work a full time job managing a business for little or no wage, using staff they had no contractual authority over etc etc etc.

 

the only other way to surmount this problem was the big society thing where the government actively got behind the idea of the peoples supermarket and issued specific grants for people to set them up. which the major supermarkets and the small independant retailers that already exist would kick up a stink about.

eg if one of these opened up three doors down from a fruit and veg shop they would also lose some custom along with sainsburies local down the street.

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the idea behind it seems great, its not until the 'buts' get looked into that the can of worms is opened.

the very foundation seems to be missing from the business plan though - the initial investment to start it all.

 

it would have to be a very dedicated philanthropist to invest thousands of their own money, with no return, to set it up and build it up at a loss for the first year or two and then work a full time job managing a business for little or no wage, using staff they had no contractual authority over etc etc etc.

 

the only other way to surmount this problem was the big society thing where the government actively got behind the idea of the peoples supermarket and issued specific grants for people to set them up. which the major supermarkets and the small independant retailers that already exist would kick up a stink about.

eg if one of these opened up three doors down from a fruit and veg shop they would also lose some custom along with sainsburies local down the street.

 

There are govt. funding streams being set-up now.

It could be run as a co-operative though, there would be no money man putting funds in and getting funds out. As part of the 'co-operative' you could have all your major suppliers. Theres loads of ways of doing this other than what you mentioned.

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New York has lots of people living in high rise apartments and many have no car. They shop for a little often.

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New York has lots of people living in high rise apartments and many have no car. They shop for a little often.

 

Yeah, give up on the idea because it is impossible to adapt ideas to local conditions :rolleyes:

 

Villages in Sweden where small local shops have closed, citizens are starting their own virtual shops. Although they source their goods from retailers rather than wholesalers at the moment, that's largely because they are small, disparate groups.

 

Technology, yet again, could provide the means to create large, well organised people's grocery buying network. Even a few minutes of considering this idea reveals lots of interesting possibilities. (and pitfalls)

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I think the idea is intriguing and would probably try it out. However I am opposed to any government or charity funding. It would require 6 figure funding to set up a co-op/tesco express sized store. Who would fund this. If the government started handing out 6 figure sums to set these up we would waste so much money.

 

In Crookes we already have a co-op (owned by its members) and a sainsburys. 1 mile away is a large morrisons, medium tesco and a waitrose (owned by its employees). I can go to farmers markets, or farm shops if I want, I can go to the market for really cheap fruit and veg, or I can go to one of the fruit and veg grocers nearby.

 

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/articles.aspx?page=independentarticle&ID=216052 This article suggests that the concept store would have gone bust without the free TV publicity.

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The problem is sustainability, it would have to be self-sufficient at some stage, thats why I think Govt help and subsidy is essential. As soon as it gets any sort of penetration into the market the big boys would put it out of Business. It needs protecting, as a community project would be protected from corporate competition.

 

Were all discussing free market principles here, at the end of the day its great that any Business or individual has a chance to make money but the landscape has dramatically changed recently and we would benefit from having more community shops. As soon as companies become big hitters in certain markets its really difficult for anyone to compete. Think mobile companies oligopoly 'vodaphone, 3, orange, o2' and retail.

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There are govt. funding streams being set-up now.

It could be run as a co-operative though, there would be no money man putting funds in and getting funds out. As part of the 'co-operative' you could have all your major suppliers. Theres loads of ways of doing this other than what you mentioned.

 

but then it wouldnt be a co-operative of the people, it would be a co-operative of the suppliers, who are businessmen.

asking the public to pay money for some businessmen to set up a shop in which to sell their produce would be a bit of an ask, and takes the peoples supermarket away from what it was originally intended to be.

 

i caught up with the programme last night, nothing of the problems that had arisen were a surprise. i almost felt sorry for Mr Potts Dawson, especially as he was having to do the same as the shop in Devon linked earlier and ask for government subsidy to enable the business to survive, the public weren't providing that for him.

 

a venture like that would have to enusre that it's 'workforce' and its customers (primarily one and the same thing it seemed) were fully engaged and commited to it. it's a very alien concept for the british public to have to work in the shop they buy their food from - to them it's a service they use, not another job to work at. a seismic shift in perceptions and lifestyle wouldnt be an understatement - ask yourself how many people look down their noses at supermarket shelf stackers and say they'd never do that job in a million years?

 

even as the shop was bordering on breaking even, it's problem was repaying the debt it had incurred on opening. i still think that government subsidies to cover the start up cost of a venture like that would raise some complaints from other independant retailers (someone would have to explain the other avenues of funding that would be available and keep the original proposition of being owned by the people alive, i don't know enough about that side).

 

i cant see a little corner shop having much impact on sainsburies or tesco who cater for huge family spends costing hundreds of pounds a time; and it still wouldnt solve many of the problems that the shop in the programme had - ie, if the 'staff' dont feel like going to work, they also dont go in to shop = double whammy loss to the business.

 

(its an age old joke in retail that if it wasnt for the staff and the customers causing problems the place would run like clock work!)

Edited by watchcoll

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