The question you dare not answer?

[peterw 10]

THIS History and Ex-Pats Section is basically of interest to the older generations. I do not know our percentage in relation to the entire membership, nor do I know the numbers of younger generations who follow us out of interest but some years ago I unfolded my own story of cruelty at the hands of my father and I was surprised to learn how many other victims it attracted.

 

The question I am going to ask today is of a similar nature; another “how many”. Those forumers who meet socially and as a consequence know each other will be unable to tell me what I would like to know, but I wonder … who dares and who doesn’t dare?

 

When I was in my 50s my mother, in conversation, revealed her own secret life and thus unknowingly unlocked my memory of days before my fifth year of existence when one day I heard my father arguing with my grandmother about a playing card that she had not put on show in her bedroom window.

 

They had gone upstairs after my grandmother had asked him to do some work for her and he had told her he needed to see what she wanted done. I began to follow them, but was thrown down by my father who very viciously told me to wait downstairs.

 

I had a pencil in my hand, and on the way down the sharpened end stuck in my forehead and drew blood. After what seemed to be along time they came downstairs, saw what had happened and took me to Sheffield Royal Infirmary. Today, hospitals would ask questions, but no such luck in those days.

 

Having reached my mid-fifties,, and with both my grandmother and my father dead, my mother probably thought she could speak more freely. And of course she could.

 

I also remember my two aunts — then my mother’s unmarried sisters — arguing a week or so later, and one saying “If you won’t tell her then I will.” Other snippets of that extremely serious conversation came into my mind and after putting other incidents together I knew that they had been talking about telling my grandmother that they knew more about her playing card than she had given them credit for.

 

I now have just the one aunt who is 97. She is quite a religious woman and for some reason refuses to admit that the conversation took place. But it did. In fact it cleared up other avenue of doubts, like why had my grandfather suddenly taken to drink and why was my father never invited or welcomed to the family’s Christmas day get-together at his home when the rest of us were there.

 

Shortly after that ancient, very painful incident I was surprised to receive a spanking new pedal car from my unemployed father, and from my shop-keeping grandmother a two-wheeled pedal cycle with runners on each side to enabled me to ride. Christmas had been and gone, so too had my birthday. One gift was not affordable, the other one was, and from that I now gather that they had both been purchased by my grandmother.

 

Today’s generations speak more freely about sexual matters. From what I have written you will have gathered that the playing card indicated that my grandmother was at home but grandfather was not. With me in tow (I was then below school age), we would call when the playing card was in the window, but not at other times. I always thought it was a bit odd, but then I was only a stupid little kid.

 

Plain talking, my father was having it off with my grandmother. Put another way, my grandmother was having it off with my father. Who, among the Forum’s writers and readers, know of, or have personally done something similar? We are all aware it goes on: young wives with brothers-in-law and fathers-in-law, young husbands with mothers-in-law. It might be morally wrong, but it doesn’t appear to be legally wrong.

Edited December 28, 2010 by peterw
one literal present

[poppins 10]

THIS History and Ex-Pats Section is basically of interest to the older generations. I do not know our percentage in relation to the entire membership, nor do I know the numbers of younger generations who follow us out of interest but some years ago I unfolded my own story of cruelty at the hands of my father and I was surprised to learn how many other victims it attracted.

 

The question I am going to ask today is of a similar nature; another “how many”. Those forumers who meet socially and as a consequence know each other will be unable to tell me what I would like to know, but I wonder … who dares and who doesn’t dare?

 

When I was in my 50s my mother, in conversation, revealed her own secret life and thus unknowingly unlocked my memory of days before my fifth year of existence when one day I heard my father arguing with my grandmother about a playing card that she had not put on show in her bedroom window.

 

They had gone upstairs after my grandmother had asked him to do some work for her and he had told her he needed to see what she wanted done. I began to follow them, but was thrown down by my father who very viciously told me to wait downstairs.

 

I had a pencil in my hand, and on the way down the sharpened end stuck in my forehead and drew blood. After what seemed to be along time they came downstairs, saw what had happened and took me to Sheffield Royal Infirmary. Today, hospitals would ask questions, but no such luck in those days.

 

Having reached my mid-fifties,, and with both my grandmother and my father dead, my mother probably thought she could speak more freely. And of course she could.

 

I also remember my two aunts — then my mother’s unmarried sisters — arguing a week or so later, and one saying “If you won’t tell her then I will.” Other snippets of that extremely serious conversation came into my mind and after putting other incidents together I knew that they had been talking about telling my grandmother that they knew more about her playing card than she had given them credit for.

 

I now have just the one aunt who is 97. She is quite a religious woman and for some reason refuses to admit that the conversation took place. But it did. In fact it cleared up other avenue of doubts, like why had my grandfather suddenly taken to drink and why was my father never invited or welcomed to the family’s Christmas day get-together at his home when the rest of us were there.

 

Shortly after that ancient, very painful incident I was surprised to receive a spanking new pedal car from my unemployed father, and from my shop-keeping grandmother a two-wheeled pedal cycle with runners on each side to enabled me to ride. Christmas had been and gone, so too had my birthday. One gift was not affordable, the other one was, and from that I now gather that they had both been purchased by my grandmother.

 

Today’s generations speak more freely about sexual matters. From what I have written you will have gathered that the playing card indicated that my grandmother was at home but grandfather was not. With me in tow (I was then below school age), we would call when the playing card was in the window, but not at other times. I always thought it was a bit odd, but then I was only a stupid little kid.

 

Plain talking, my father was having it off with my grandmother. Put another way, my grandmother was having it off with my father. Who, among the Forum’s writers and readers, know of, or have personally done something similar? We are all aware it goes on: young wives with brothers-in-law and fathers-in-law, young husbands with mothers-in-law. It might be morally wrong, but it doesn’t appear to be legally wrong.

 

Peter was your grandmother your fathers mother or his mother-in-law ? never heard of the card in the window sign, but interesting.

[hellabobby 10]

There used to be a wash powder called OMO Women would put the box in the window to let their lovers know they were in alone. The OMO meaning Old Man Out {husband} They stopped selling the powder some years ago probably to stop offending Gays

[poppins 10]

Not too many phones in the homes back then to say...it's safe now.

[David Bowler 10]

What a sad story, I hope you can put it behind you, I'm sure this went on more than we realise

[teddie 10]

It is sad, but I'm sure it still happens today.

[soft ayperth 11]

A very, very distressing story, Peter. I didn't understand the significance of the card in the window until near the end. These awful memories must have been difficult for you to deal with. My best wishes to you.

[peterw 10]

Poppins — My grqndmother was my maternal grandmother. The affair had continued for around five years, and certainly until my grandmother owned up to it and confessed to my mother. They never spoke to each other for a good number of years, although I continued to get presents from my grandmother and nothing spoiled my Christmases.

 

I wrote some years ago about my father, but what I did not say then was that I did have the pleasure of telling him that I knew exactly what kind of a scumbag he was.

 

What he did has never affected me because I knew he was a scumbag and it didn’t even surprise me.

 

Sometimes can find reasons to forgive him his every action — except that one. I have a brother considerably younger than myself, who believes the sun shined out of his backside. He never once suffered what I suffered, `and I do not suppose he would believe me if I told him that for the first eight or nine months of his life my father never once made an attempt to even see him let alone hold him in his arms.

 

Any basic excuse from me for my father’s actions would first have to be the loss of his eldest brother, his idol I understand, in the Great War, and the family’s only bread-winner; his father having died aged 46. hen came those lean years when unemployment was rife. We lived through it and ate well, primarily because he had two allotments and grew the necessary vegetables on one, and chrysanthemums for sale from the other. He was also the bee’s knees at D.I.Y.

 

I tend to think that he regarded my arrival as a disaster and treated it as such. Birthdays and Christmas bought me some wonderful and very expensive toys including a gauge 0 railway layout the size of a 19th century billiards room that housed it. Before and during the second world war my mother was caretaker at Sharrow’s Bottom Snuff Mill, and the room, from Frog Walk, looking across the dam, was on the extreme left of the main entrance.

 

I suspect they were all given by way of an excuse for his tempers and violence; both of which helped my mother to lose that much sought after position that brought her 30 shilling a week in wages, an entire house with all utility bills paid, and in effect a job for life. The previous caretaker had been a Mrs Hogg who had grown too old to carry out her duties, but was retained in her position when my mother was originally hired to help her!

[Texas 10]

Man, I've heard some stories but that's some heavy s*** PW. How do you get over something like that?

I didn't meet my old man until I was about 11 years of age and he was what you would call a heavy father. Up till then everything had been smooth and then, BAM!

Taught me to jab and move though. And I thought I'd been hard done by.

[handypandy 14]

I have always counted myself so fortunate to be brought up in our family. Mom and Dad, grandmas and grandads, aunts and uncles all solid family people. I can honestly say that there wouldnt be one person in the whole of my extended family that I could say anything against..... in fact quite the contrary...I love or loved every last one of them.

 

I have spent pretty much all my working life dealing with the public, so frankly, nothing has surprised me much for a long time. I suppose the one that sickened me most, was the neighbour of a customer of mine. This reptile whose (3 or 4) daughters all had children to him, whose philosophy was " I brought them into the world, I'm the first to have them". It was common knowledge on the road where he lived and he made no secret of the fact. I could never understand why the 'man' was still walking the streets, let alone still in one piece.

[Banker 10]

My goodness, I must have led a sheltered life....

[chrishall 10]

Not condoning anything but far worse things happen than between 'consenting adults'.