Crosspool Harvester's Allotment

[RobD1 10]

Thanks for your reply, but you didn't answer the question about what you're going to spend the money on.

[bobby99 10]

Fair questions.

 

On the question of the grant. The council is offering a climate change fund which is available for various kinds of projects and local food growing is one of them. If we can enable 20 families to get a proportion of their food grown locally and with much less use of unsustainable methods that will achieve something. Further, if we, as we intend, can do this in an open way, actively inviting groups from schools and others who want to come and see what we are doing and learn, with us, about how this can be made to work, the benefits could go much wider.

 

We do recognise that the sum involved is considerable and some feel is disproportionate to the scale of the project, compared with other needs that exist.

 

I find a catch-22 operating here. If we focus on the benefits to our members, then we are accused of not warranting public sector support, but if I talk about others benefiting we raise fears of attracting large amounts of traffic, noise, etc.. Our thinking on this is to keep this local and we hoped to find land within walking distance of schools, etc., and do not intend to become similar to Whirlow or Heeley City.

 

On the sustainability point, we have given a lot of thought to this - as you say, we know that groups come and go. That is why we have put a lot of effort into researching different models that exist, joining the FCFCG and Soil Association and my role in this is really to manage the project so that the group is nurtured and becomes a strong force. One could say that my mistake has been to focus too much on the group and not enough on wider "stakeholders". Also, by having a purpose that is more than just growing our own food (although I think that will become an increasingly powerful motivator in future years as food prices increase) and some potential for small levels of income, so we can pay a few members for special time they put in I see this also contributing to its sustainability. Clearly I cannot guarantee anything but I guess that fact that we are aware of the risk and building some management effort into this will, I believe, make a big difference.

Hello Nuttyroodo (Nick)

I'm a bit confused Nutty... why are you posting all this stuff on here at 6.45 this morning when you withdrew your application for the council grant last night?

Edited October 10, 2010 by bobby99
typo

[Nuttyroodo 10]

We have withdrawn our application as we don't see a way forward with land we have leased but we still want try to explain what we want to do and undo the negative reputation that we have acquired.

 

So we can have some chance of ever getting beyond this situation in the future.

[Nuttyroodo 10]

Thanks for your reply, but you didn't answer the question about what you're going to spend the money on.

 

 

The money was to enable us to remove the broken glass, asbestos, rubble and other rubbish usibng a skip hire co that recycles as much as possible, to get a professional tree surgeon to clear a lot of the vegetation from the area where we aimed to start but doing it sesnitively leaving the big oaks etc and taking care, and then similarly having some careful terrassing done taking care to avoid disrupting the natutal springs and wildlife.

It is expensive because we wanted to do a good job and not just come and bulldoze the whole area which would have been cheaper.

That is why it is not easy to find a way around this by just getting someone with a jcb in the group.

 

Anyway it is not to be.

[Elmambo 25]

We have withdrawn our application as we don't see a way forward with land we have leased but we still want try to explain what we want to do and undo the negative reputation that we have acquired.

 

So we can have some chance of ever getting beyond this situation in the future.

 

Your first and worst mistake Nick, was to choose the wrong piece of land. You need to understand that Crookes has been squeezed 'til the pips squeak, almost every bit of open space has been developed (this has usually taken the form of cheaply built flats and houses) Therefore this bit of greenbelt land on the upper reaches of the Rivelin Valley, is especially precious. There is a strong feeling that if any development however small were allowed it would be the thin end of the wedge and a few years down the line end up as housing. Remember, this land, essentially worthless now, would be worth a fortune if planning permission were to be granted - the pressures are there. Your own house is built on land that when I was a kid was a working farm, known locally as the second farm, so lets not pretend it can't happen.

 

Your next mistake was a total failure to consult the neighbouring community and then have the brass neck to say that you had done this. It must have come as quite a shock at the meeting to find so many people so angry and able to put the panel straight. Is it any wonder that you have alienated us ?

 

Taking your website at face value, you are a group of Crosspool residents who share a mutual love of vegetables, cavorting in the countryside and petting animals. I think there is more to it than that and it is the things that you have not said that arouse my susupicions.

 

Enough for tonight I'll comment some more later.

[Akrasia 10]

I find the idea of a Community Farm in Crookes very exciting (it's the kind of thing I'd love to get involved in), but I'm not quite convinced that spending £15k of public money on setting it up would have been justified, particularly given the concerns that have been raised.

 

Perhaps if the group started to bring the plots back into use gradually, using volunteers and/or private money, and established a track record as good stewards of the land, then the more ambitious plans could be revived further down the line with less opposition.

[fuzzy 10]

Wow, I had been checking on this but everyone has come in while i wasn't here. I came to see if there was any word on further meetings.

 

So if the grant application has been withdrawn, has the whole project been abandoned?

 

I believed the lease had been signed for 6 years. What are you going to do with it now?

 

Why the need for the grant?? If there is asbestos on the land then surely it should be cleared by the land owner?? Everyone else that gets an allotment has to put their own money and hard work in to get the land sorted out, supplies are usually got from skips unless you are prepared to spend your own money making it all posh. Maybe the council shud give everyone with an allotment a skip because most of them have a skip load of rubbish on them.

 

My objections were that i have been trying to get an allotment down there for over a year and i end up just going around and around with the company.

 

Other concerns were also about the animals the group were planning on having, and the smell and noise, and what would happen if something went wrong in the night and noone lives around to care for them. Why are they not setting up in Crosspool nearer the people in the group.

 

Questions asked by residents were not directly answered, there was a lot of skirting around things. That makes people suspicious.

 

And why did they need a pizza oven on there is the most curious question??

 

And i don't think you did yourselves any favours bringing the blond woman around to visit residents either, i've spoken to a few and they have said she put them off even thinking about it.

Edited October 11, 2010 by fuzzy

[hitch_1980 10]

Wow, I had been checking on this but everyone has come in while i wasn't here. I came to see if there was any word on further meetings.

 

So if the grant application has been withdrawn, has the whole project been abandoned?

 

I believed the lease had been signed for 6 years. What are you going to do with it now?

 

Why the need for the grant?? If there is asbestos on the land then surely it should be cleared by the land owner?? Everyone else that gets an allotment has to put their own money and hard work in to get the land sorted out, supplies are usually got from skips unless you are prepared to spend your own money making it all posh. Maybe the council shud give everyone with an allotment a skip because most of them have a skip load of rubbish on them.

 

My objections were that i have been trying to get an allotment down there for over a year and i end up just going around and around with the company.

 

Other concerns were also about the animals the group were planning on having, and the smell and noise, and what would happen if something went wrong in the night and noone lives around to care for them. Why are they not setting up in Crosspool nearer the people in the group.

 

Questions asked by residents were not directly answered, there was a lot of skirting around things. That makes people suspicious.

 

And why did they need a pizza oven on there is the most curious question??

 

And i don't think you did yourselves any favours bringing the blond woman around to visit residents either, i've spoken to a few and they have said she put them off even thinking about it.

 

Yourself and Akrasia both have valid points of objection. All of them could be discussed and a way forward found. My objection to the critisism on here of the project from certain members, has been there refusal to even consider the idea, and come up with points such as "your from crosspool not crookes, go back there" Which to me comes across as very insular.

 

When a project wants to involves schools, etc. The residents could have said "what about scouts, guides, local projects that are all ready up and running" etc.

 

Its a two way processn as they say.

 

What advice would you give other similar projects that could happen around sheffield?

 

ps: Im not the greatest in the world at putting my point across clearly

Edited October 11, 2010 by hitch_1980

[Nuttyroodo 10]

Wow, I had been checking on this but everyone has come in while i wasn't here. I came to see if there was any word on further meetings.

 

So if the grant application has been withdrawn, has the whole project been abandoned?

 

I believed the lease had been signed for 6 years. What are you going to do with it now?

 

Why the need for the grant?? If there is asbestos on the land then surely it should be cleared by the land owner?? Everyone else that gets an allotment has to put their own money and hard work in to get the land sorted out, supplies are usually got from skips unless you are prepared to spend your own money making it all posh. Maybe the council shud give everyone with an allotment a skip because most of them have a skip load of rubbish on them.

 

My objections were that i have been trying to get an allotment down there for over a year and i end up just going around and around with the company.

 

Other concerns were also about the animals the group were planning on having, and the smell and noise, and what would happen if something went wrong in the night and noone lives around to care for them. Why are they not setting up in Crosspool nearer the people in the group.

 

Questions asked by residents were not directly answered, there was a lot of skirting around things. That makes people suspicious.

 

And why did they need a pizza oven on there is the most curious question??

 

And i don't think you did yourselves any favours bringing the blond woman around to visit residents either, i've spoken to a few and they have said she put them off even thinking about it.

 

No the project has not been abandoned but we will be giving a lot of thought to our next steps as we have already ruled out all land around crosspool. The lease was subject to getting planning permission so we hope to be able to terminate it. I have offered to dominic to let the owner know there are others interested in taking a plot and can do what we can to help you make progress with that.

Re the animals we were willing to scale back the livestock if it was a problem but had a number of local residents who have expressed interest in joining so there would have been people on hand.

 

What people took as us being evasive was I feel us simply trying to be flexible and not havibg all our plans firmed up so we could reflect concerns raised,

 

Finally all those who took part in the consultation were members of the group who volunteered for this.

Nick

[Akrasia 10]

For me, the main concern to address would be that the landowner would get £15k of public money to improve his land, and would pretty soon be able to do whatever he likes with it. A much longer lease, giving you an option to renew, or him accepting a restrictive covenant might help with that. If he could be persuaded to pay for making the land safe (in particular, for removing the asbestos), then that would look better too.

 

It would also be nice if it were clear that you were doing as much of the work yourselves as you possibly can. Allotment holders often have to put a huge amount of work into clearing their plots to get them back into use when they first get them. If you're seen to be getting your hands dirty and only paying for essential specialist services, then that will look better than if looks like you're hiring professionals to do work that you should be doing yourselves, especially as you don't have a track record.

 

Giving £15k to a group of just 20 families might still look a bit off in the current climate, so links with other groups (e.g. schools) are really important, and the more open you are to others getting involved the better. The more people the money impacts, the more reasonable an investment it will look.

 

Those things, and the assurances you've already given about minimising the impact on local residents would be enough to persuade me that this would be a great thing for Crookes. Good luck with working out what to do next.

[Demondig 10]

I'm unable to contact people via PM, not having sufficiently many posts on the forum, but this is just a short message to say that Nick has indeed very kindly offered to put in a word for any of those who have been interested in using one of the relevant allotments. If people want to PM me, I'll pass along the details to Nick.

[hitch_1980 10]

For me, the main concern to address would be that the landowner would get £15k of public money to improve his land, and would pretty soon be able to do whatever he likes with it. A much longer lease, giving you an option to renew, or him accepting a restrictive covenant might help with that. If he could be persuaded to pay for making the land safe (in particular, for removing the asbestos), then that would look better too.

 

It would also be nice if it were clear that you were doing as much of the work yourselves as you possibly can. Allotment holders often have to put a huge amount of work into clearing their plots to get them back into use when they first get them. If you're seen to be getting your hands dirty and only paying for essential specialist services, then that will look better than if looks like you're hiring professionals to do work that you should be doing yourselves, especially as you don't have a track record.

 

Giving £15k to a group of just 20 families might still look a bit off in the current climate, so links with other groups (e.g. schools) are really important, and the more open you are to others getting involved the better. The more people the money impacts, the more reasonable an investment it will look.

 

Those things, and the assurances you've already given about minimising the impact on local residents would be enough to persuade me that this would be a great thing for Crookes. Good luck with working out what to do next.

 

Having contact with organisations such as schools is the key to any succesful venture like this. Yet this brings extra costs as your dealing with health and safety on a large scale. You may need to ensure adequate toilets are available, and if you have a green ethos, these are never cheap. You may also have to have disabled access, including proper paths. The list can be rather large i expect.

 

An allotment is for 1 persons use only, and health and safety may get put on the back burner......

 

The lease length can be important for a few reasons, as I believe to get certain things put on your land it has to be over 3 years. 6 years actually seems quite good. To buy any piece of land in sheffield would be expensive because of the amount of land that is green belted......and that is a head ache in itself.

Edited October 11, 2010 by hitch_1980