Is the bubble bursting for Universities?

[Mecky 10]

Yeah, Hallam for one. Like I said, they are taking someone who has no more that an NVQ onto a masters degree. That is simply about money and has nothing to do with education, I'm afraid. They are a business and need to make money.

 

So what you are saying is that someone with a NVQ can't get the same marks/qualification as someone with A levels or a bachelor degree?

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

A Master's degree is a post-graduate qualification.

 

It's hardly unusual (and arguably it's not unrealistic, either) to require somebody who wants to do a post-graduate qualification to have a baccalaureate degree (or equivalent.) - That's why they are called 'post-graduate' qualifications.

 

An NVQ (unless its at level 4 or 5) is unlikely to be considered as qualification for entry to a post-graduate degree.

[Cyclone 10]

I think it is possible to over educate people in quite a number of courses on offer...................some which require very little real education at all!

 

That's not over education then, it's just time wasting.

[Cyclone 10]

A Master's degree is a post-graduate qualification.

 

It's hardly unusual (and arguably it's not unrealistic, either) to require somebody who wants to do a post-graduate qualification to have a baccalaureate degree (or equivalent.) - That's why they are called 'post-graduate' qualifications.

 

An NVQ (unless its at level 4 or 5) is unlikely to be considered as qualification for entry to a post-graduate degree.

 

Not necessarily, many engineering degree's are masters, technically it is possible to stop after the 3rd year and take the BSc, but in reality that means you haven't finished the course and won't find the qualification to be any use, MEng is what's expected and BScEng is worthless.

[HeadingNorth 11]

I agree, in essence, with Cyclone's comment that it's not possible to over-educate someone. All education and knowledge is worthwhile.

 

On the other hand ... we do still need people to dig roads, clean toilets and collect the dustbins every week. It's a waste of everyone's time and money if people are led to believe that better education will always lead to a better job, because there are only so many jobs out there that require degree-level education.

[HeadingNorth 11]

Not necessarily, many engineering degree's are masters, technically it is possible to stop after the 3rd year and take the BSc, but in reality that means you haven't finished the course and won't find the qualification to be any use, MEng is what's expected and BScEng is worthless.

 

That raises the question of whether Snook's acquaintance is taking a Master's course that lasts one year, or four.

[Snook 10]

So what you are saying is that someone with a NVQ can't get the same marks/qualification as someone with A levels or a bachelor degree?

 

No, I'm saying that you have no idea what marks they can get because they don't have the qualifications. Why have exams at all if you just let anybody into a degree? Just let everyone go to uni and see who passes?

 

That raises the question of whether Snook's acquaintance is taking a Master's course that lasts one year, or four.

 

I didn't ask, to be honest, I was just amazed that someone can get into a masters degree in English Lit (or something like that, it's English based) with no A-levels or a degree. Apparently it is different if you are a mature student, but I would have thought that in reality it is about money.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Snook

[Anting 10]

As long as you can come up with the money most people could take a Masters course. I should know, I sit in the lectures with them!

 

A

[HeadingNorth 11]

I didn't ask, to be honest, I was just amazed that someone can get into a masters degree in English Lit (or something like that, it's English based) with no A-levels or a degree. Apparently it is different if you are a mature student, but I would have thought that in reality it is about money.

 

But as Cyclone says, if it's a four-year Masters course, that would be perfectly normal; the first three years of it will be the Bachelor's degree and the fourth year the Master's.

 

I don't know if English Lit courses are set up like that. I know maths and engineering courses often are.

[muddycoffee 10]

I agree, in essence, with Cyclone's comment that it's not possible to over-educate someone. All education and knowledge is worthwhile.

.

 

Some people like to "improve" themselves by spending their evenings dirinking alcohol in pubs, smoking heavily or watching television every day. Others would prefer to get their stimulation by attending college or University courses.

As to the "point" of education, it clearly falls into two categories. The first being self gratification whereby an adult person chooses to learn a foreign language, or practice art or crafts for the challenge and pleasure of it all. The second is to improve a person's employability.

 

From my observations and personal experience over the last 25 years it seems to me that people who do hard technical qualifications tend to get good jobs, whereas people who do art degrees or stuff like geology find that there is little prospect of a career in that particular field. These people I imagine tend to go for things they are good at rather than planning their education so that it will give them an advantage in the employment market.

 

As to matching qualifications with intelligence, I know plenty of useless people with degrees, and many of the brightest most intellegent people I have ever met seem to be people who don't have much by the way of qualifications and do manual work for most of their lives.

[HeadingNorth 11]

Some people like to "improve" themselves by spending their evenings dirinking alcohol in pubs, smoking heavily or watching television every day. Others would prefer to get their stimulation by attending college or University courses.

 

Well, I certainly would not support the forcible entry of people into further education. Quite apart from anything else, anybody who is not there by choice isn't going to learn anything anyway.

 

 

As to the "point" of education, it clearly falls into two categories. The first being self gratification whereby an adult person chooses to learn a foreign language, or practice art or crafts for the challenge and pleasure of it all. The second is to improve a person's employability.

 

Quite so. At one time, degrees marked you in the top 5% of the academic echelon, and you were employed accordingly; the notion in the 90s seems to have been to educate 50% of the public until they were all in the top 5%, which is self-evidently ludicrous and was never going to be a success.

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

Not necessarily, many engineering degree's are masters, technically it is possible to stop after the 3rd year and take the BSc, but in reality that means you haven't finished the course and won't find the qualification to be any use, MEng is what's expected and BScEng is worthless.

 

I wouldn't quite go as far as to say that a BEng is 'worthless' - Though it's certainly not as good as an MEng.

 

Yes, it is possible to start out on a Master's programme from day 1 - and there are good reasons for doing so; not least being that if you were to complete the baccalaureate degree then re-enrol for the additional year to obtain the Master's, you would almost certainly find that the cost of that final year would be extremely expensive.

 

LEAs are obliged to fund an initial degree and if you extend that degree (while the course is underway) to include the Master's year it gets funded from the same pot, but LEAs are under no obligation whatsoever to provide any funding towards postgraduate degrees taken as separate courses.