Sniffer dogs for nightclubs.

[lalaland 10]

I still think that it would be a very good idea to have sniffer dogs at the doors of clubs. This doesn't have to be operated by the police, it could be done by private security as a condition of your entry in to the club and therefore it could be funded by the club and not drain police resources.

 

Slimsid2000, I'm sure if you were to provide this service in Sheffield or South Yorkshire that you'd have a pretty good chance of starting up a decent trade. Perhaps you should consider speaking to some licence holders, putting together a business plan, getting an SIA licence and getting some dog handlers hired?

[Ruby79 10]

if it were run by a private company and as a money making enterprise then surely it would not be a prevention to crime ... that is a government issue.

 

Maybe slim sid should spend his time rehabilitating offenders and people at the root of the problem, rather than jo public popping the odd pill on a sat night and not harming anyone.

 

Licensees wouldnt want their customers turned away surely .. and have to shell out extra cash ?

[slimsid2000 10]

The question was whether it would work or not as a crime (and drugs are illegal) reduction measure. Obviously if you favour drugs in clubs then you would hardly agree with it any way.

[Ruby79 10]

sorry missed where i actually put that in any of my posts. But then with john major as your pic its easy to see how you can get things wrong !!!

[lalaland 10]

if it were run by a private company and as a money making enterprise then surely it would not be a prevention to crime ... that is a government issue.

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion?

 

Private security is a very big business in this country and does have an impact on crime. Just because someone is charging for that service doesn't mean it's suddenly not preventing a crime.

 

To be honest I'd rather that a nightclub, which is a business making money, pays for a service like this rather then it be supplied at the cost to the tax payer.

 

As a similar example, do you realise that football clubs have to pay an amount to their local police force for the policing services provided to their match? This prevents crime and is also being paid for directly by that club.

 

Maybe slim sid should spend his time rehabilitating offenders and people at the root of the problem, rather than jo public popping the odd pill on a sat night and not harming anyone.

That could be one angle to looking at the problem, but there's certainly nothing wrong at all with preventing the sale and use of illegal drugs in a club. This would also be helping people.

 

As for not harming anyone, people selling drugs in clubs can often hurt people and can those using drugs. While I don't want to jump in to the debate on the effects of each drug or the crimes associated with those that supply them or use them, I think it would be unrealistic to suggest that there is no harm caused by the use or sale of illegal drugs in a club.

 

Licensees wouldnt want their customers turned away surely .. and have to shell out extra cash ?

Any reputable club wouldn't want drug users or sellers in their property and if they were knowingly turning a blind eye to it they'd quickly find their licence under question.

 

As for clubs not wanting to have to 'shell out extra cash', a quick google search shows that it isn't unthinkable - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7352751.stm and http://archive.lancashireeveningtelegraph.co.uk/2000/1/18/744753.html so it's certainly been done before and there's no reason why it can't be done again in other places.

 

Could be a good money maker here, get a few dog handlers on the books and hire them to cover several clubs in different areas etc.

[Ruby79 10]

You have read between the lines on this one, maybe you should read back on previous posts in this thread to other views also.

 

My point is that violent crime is an issue , not drug use in a nightclub. Where alcohol goes violence goes and this needs to be sorted. I have never ever in my life seen violence at a rave /club etc. I havent seen anything in the media recently about drug use in clubs .. but we are plagued with stabbings, shootings, etc etc . I just think there are better things to do than put sniffer dogs on club doors .

 

As someone that lives used to live in Manchester , it is easy to find out and read up on how clubs / doors are run, and all that goes with it.. once you have done that its easy to see how a private company running such a thing wouldnt really work.

 

I do however think metal detectors etc are a superb idea as violence at the moment is appalling.

[lalaland 10]

You have read between the lines on this one, maybe you should read back on previous posts in this thread to other views also.

I've posted my views on the subject and quoted some of your posts, replying to the points you made.

 

My point is that violent crime is an issue , not drug use in a nightclub.

I don't think that just because one issue exists doesn't mean we should ignore the other, both are problems, and this thread was started because the OP had an idea to tackle drug issues in nightclubs and similar establishments.

 

You are of course welcome to your own opinion and to make any point you wish, but with the original topic of the thread being about sniffer dogs at nightclubs I'd say that the point relating to drug issues in nightspots is quite valid here.

 

Where alcohol goes violence goes and this needs to be sorted.

Another issue and one that I will not dismiss, however again I suggest that just because the alcohol fueled violence issue exists doesn't mean we should ignore the drug issue that clearly exists.

 

I have never ever in my life seen violence at a rave /club etc. I havent seen anything in the media recently about drug use in clubs .. but we are plagued with stabbings, shootings, etc etc .

If you rely on the media to get an understanding of what issues are present then you may find you only get a fraction of the picture. The media tend to report on what's 'in fashion' at the time. After all you won't get as much interest in media if they continue to report on the same type of stories forever. Just because drug issues don't reach the press doesn't mean they aren't existent. I have been involved in plenty of incidents in the past that I thought would feature in the press only to find nothing at all. The reason for this? Because it wasn't pick of the day when it came to selling that particular newspaper or getting viewers for the news channel.

 

Today's press seem to currently favour stabbings and knife crime. It's the hot topic, it sells, it creates concern and fear, so there's plenty of that being reported in the press. It's not just started all of a sudden, I've been to plenty of stabbings that never made the press, it's just that now there's a buzz for it in the press so it's appearing more and more. Give it a while and stabbings will be old hat and something else will come along that grabs the headlines.

 

I just think there are better things to do than put sniffer dogs on club doors .

Again you are of course welcome to your own opinion, but the OP appears to be under the impression that this would be a good idea. I am also of that opinion. Some may argue that there are better things to do than put door staff on doors at clubs, I guess it comes down to personal views and priorities.

 

As someone that lives used to live in Manchester , it is easy to find out and read up on how clubs / doors are run, and all that goes with it.. once you have done that its easy to see how a private company running such a thing wouldnt really work.

I don't agree. I think this would work and I also live in Manchester, so perhaps I am equally qualified to have such a view

 

I am interested though as to why you think it wouldn't work? Currently there are plenty of companies selling private security services, especially to nightclubs and other establishments and they appear to be doing very well for it. If they offered this as an extra service I think they'd do well.

 

I do however think metal detectors etc are a superb idea as violence at the moment is appalling.

Remember that violence can occur without items detected by metal detectors. I think in some situations they are a good idea, but I don't think they are any better an idea than a sniffer dog.

[Ruby79 10]

Im an educated person and know just how the media manipulate stories and what goes unreported.

 

The original post is asking what we think to the idea, and i dont think it is a good one as , i think there are better ideas.

 

My point is if a private company is running something like this , not the police under what terms are they operating , and what agreements do they have with club owners. The police arent stupid , they knows what goes on , but its not really worth their while to arrest someone with 1 ecstasy tablet when they can arrest someone trafficking a kilo of smack !

 

Im sure some club door men ,security firms etc know exactly who the dealers are and in some cases control who deals within night clubs.

 

Im sure you will have heard about the alledged involvement of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in cocaine trafficking in Central America during the Reagan Administration . My point is if not run by the police how do you know the companies are not in it for their own gain ???

 

 

I think it a bad idea , that wont work , it will force the problem to another area .. instead it would be a much better idea to enforce something along the lines of in Holland decriminalize some drugs , make the trade safe and regulated and people wont abuse it.

[lalaland 10]

Im an educated person and know just how the media manipulate stories and what goes unreported.

 

The original post is asking what we think to the idea, and i dont think it is a good one as , i think there are better ideas.

That's fair enough. I however think it's a very good idea, but we can of course disagree.

 

My point is if a private company is running something like this , not the police under what terms are they operating , and what agreements do they have with club owners.

Probably the same that the door staff have with the clubs, if it's not provided as an additional service by the security firms that is.

 

Door staff aren't employed by the police, they are hired through other companies by the clubs or in some cases employed directly with the clubs. I don't see why dog handlers would be any different and suspect that in cases where this sort of thing has been operated in the past it may have been under the same way.

 

The police arent stupid , they knows what goes on , but its not really worth their while to arrest someone with 1 ecstasy tablet when they can arrest someone trafficking a kilo of smack !

Both commit an offence, so both should be dealt with. However we have to bear in mind that it's more common for people to carry around small amounts of drugs rather than larger quantities, so by arresting these people it's not directly taking people away from catching dealers.

 

I've arrested people in the past for having cannabis on them. I'd normally prefer to go down a street caution route, but if it's not an option due to the circumstances then the offender has to come in. It may be the case that had I have not been off the street dealing with that person that someone with a boot full of cannabis may have come along, but you have to deal with the offences as they come along and it's a lot less likely.

 

I suppose in comparrison you could claim it's not worth arresting a shop lifter who's taken 1 CD when someone could run in to a store and sweep an entire rail of clothing in to their arms and leg it. Again both are offences, both happen and both need dealing with.

 

Im sure some club door men ,security firms etc know exactly who the dealers are and in some cases control who deals within night clubs.

I've heard of such things happening in the past and there was a rumour about a place in Sheffield a while back that had this problem (although I don't know if it was anything more than just a rumour). However it's possible to get corruption in many jobs and trades, there has to be an element of trust I suppose.

 

Im sure you will have heard about the alledged involvement of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in cocaine trafficking in Central America during the Reagan Administration . My point is if not run by the police how do you know the companies are not in it for their own gain ???

There are thousands of clubs and bars in the UK, most of these hire security staff. I'm sure that in that large number there are the odd few bad apples, but that's just part of life and hopefully one day they'll get caught. However we shouldn't dismiss a good idea because of a fear of corruption when in reality adding someone to do this job wouldn't be any different to current door staff working there, they'd still have to be SIA regulated and work in the same way.

 

I think it a bad idea , that wont work ,

Drug dogs are very effective, I think it would work very well. It would be very hard to get drugs passed a trained dog, so I'm not sure how you think that wouldn't work.

 

it will force the problem to another area ..

There are many crimes in the UK that are displaced rather than completely wiped out, it's not always possible to wipe out crime so often it's sought to reduce or displace it. Expecting to wipe out drug problems would be unrealistic. However the suggestion was to solve or reduce drug problems in clubs and bars, it sounds like you are agreeing that this would possibly achieve that if you are suggesting it would be displaced and in that case surely this would be a good idea in protecting staff and users of those places from drugs and the problems they bring.

 

As for forcing it to another area, people will always take and deal in illegal drugs sadly. But removing club and bars from them will tackle a large area of the problem. I'm sure if the problem moved in a big way to another area a similar solution or other methods could be used to tackle it.

 

instead it would be a much better idea to enforce something along the lines of in Holland decriminalize some drugs , make the trade safe and regulated and people wont abuse it.

Some people abuse alcohol and that's legal, I am sure that people would still continue to abuse drugs regardless of their legal status. I have to admit, I wouldn't want to see illegal drugs legalised personally.

[Ruby79 10]

Your comments suggest you work for the police ? so i would hope that you would be of this opinion. However my feeling is that there are far more serious crimes being committed which aren't tackled properly and effectively . I'm not suggesting that people shouldnt receive punishment if they commit a crime of a less serious nature but I think time is better spent tackling more prevalent issues violence, knife crime or hard drugs ... rather than 'recreational drug users '. And personally I think that abuse of alcohol legal or not is a far great problem than that of recreational drug use. Unfortunately I don't make the laws or uphold them I deal with the consequences of them being broken, hence why i feel some things probably need to be changed , and some things are more worth spending time on than others.