Were First right to cancel buses yesterday? (5/1/10)

[dafydd 10]

It was a ridiculous over reaction to cancel the bus routes that were clear, as many were around the city centre - they cancelled the abbeydale rd services when abbeydale rd was gritted and clear - daft!

 

You really must read the rest of the thread - some of it from people who know the score. It might look fine to the uninitiated, but there you go!

[viney40 10]

You seem to be determined to prove what a half-informed, asinine half-wit it is possible to be, It is DANGEROUS you fool - no matter how experienced and I have IAM qualifications, NVQ2 and many, many years of experience. It is DANGEROUS. You can kill people. Some of whom don't deserve it! Pile up a double decker, and yes, I have seen it happen, and you can take a lot of lives. Think of the coach thatcrashed in Cornwall last week, and stop being so stupid!

 

Wow dafydd! Good point, strongley made!

[viney40 10]

You really must experience a full-scale slide and a crash in a bus - it's ever so entertaining, and impossible to control. The worst bit, once they've stitched you up, is getting the glass out of your hair. Well, that and not being able to wash it, so the blood stays in it for a bit. usually comes out on the pillow, though. The surgeons get it out of your eye for you. The yellow dye they use is great, stings a bit, but it looks like you've got jaundice.Many of them happen on roads that have indeed been gritted, but grit is not the universal panacea. You can still hurt a few, without really trying that hard. There have been 5 fatal bus crashes in the last four weeks in Britain, and funnily enough, all of them on roads that had been treated. Deep joy.

 

Thats a bit too far though, and not reserved exclusively for bus drivers.

[dafydd 10]

Thats a bit too far though, and not reserved exclusively for bus drivers.

 

Oh, I dunno. Perfectly true, and from personal experience. I also have IAM in cars, Dsa adi 2 in cars, Cardington Special (supposeldy the hardest), 37 years expereince in Britain, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, in mountains, on motorcycles, tracked vehicles, BORDA qualified in 4X4, quite a bit really, but the worst of the lot is definitely in a bus. When it decides it's going to go, there is NOTHING you can do. I wish I was exaggerating, but sadly I,m not, and I've still got the paperwork from the hospital, dated Nov 1996, to prove it. As previous threads show, there is no seat belt, no airbags, no din-built protection, no crumple-zone, nothing. When it happens, it happens,and you have to wonder how much they'd have to pay you to make it worthwhile. After 15 years in the Forces, I never felt so alone or so undervalued as in a bus in Sheffield, which is a terribly sad thing to have to say.

[Lady Star 10]

You really must read the rest of the thread - some of it from people who know the score. It might look fine to the uninitiated, but there you go!

 

So you feel that roads that are cleared are unsuited to buses, yet are fine for lorries and other large vehicles? Seems strange to me - I am not advocating buses running out into the wilds where snow was deep or roads left ungritted, but roads that are clear? I believe that buses are more than capable of travelling quite well on a clear road...

[dafydd 10]

Oh, well, I bow to your superior experience, then.

[steelman79 10]

Oh, I dunno. Perfectly true, and from personal experience. I also have IAM in cars, Dsa adi 2 in cars, Cardington Special (supposeldy the hardest), 37 years expereince in Britain, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, in mountains, on motorcycles, tracked vehicles, BORDA qualified in 4X4, quite a bit really, but the worst of the lot is definitely in a bus. When it decides it's going to go, there is NOTHING you can do. I wish I was exaggerating, but sadly I,m not, and I've still got the paperwork from the hospital, dated Nov 1996, to prove it. As previous threads show, there is no seat belt, no airbags, no din-built protection, no crumple-zone, nothing. When it happens, it happens,and you have to wonder how much they'd have to pay you to make it worthwhile. After 15 years in the Forces, I never felt so alone or so undervalued as in a bus in Sheffield, which is a terribly sad thing to have to say.

 

In post 46 you say you really enjoyed the industry but now you are saying you felt alone and undervalued?

but that aside i think first were right to pull buses off roads when they did.

[viney40 10]

Oh, I dunno. Perfectly true, and from personal experience. I also have IAM in cars, Dsa adi 2 in cars, Cardington Special (supposeldy the hardest), 37 years expereince in Britain, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, in mountains, on motorcycles, tracked vehicles, BORDA qualified in 4X4, quite a bit really, but the worst of the lot is definitely in a bus. When it decides it's going to go, there is NOTHING you can do. I wish I was exaggerating, but sadly I,m not, and I've still got the paperwork from the hospital, dated Nov 1996, to prove it. As previous threads show, there is no seat belt, no airbags, no din-built protection, no crumple-zone, nothing. When it happens, it happens,and you have to wonder how much they'd have to pay you to make it worthwhile. After 15 years in the Forces, I never felt so alone or so undervalued as in a bus in Sheffield, which is a terribly sad thing to have to say.

 

I am certainly not questioning your experience Sir, nor accusing you of exaggerating. I have the utmost respect for what you have said throughout this thread.

 

Why is it that bus drivers are not afforded the same protection in there vehicles, as the majority of car drivers?

[fozzybear210 10]

Why even venture out knowing that the buses will be out of service?

Before I came onto the buses, I served 7 years in the Army as a professional driver. Even with all my training in every type of weather on every type of terrain, to the highest standard, it opened my eyes trying to handle a bus on the roads in this weather. You jump behind the wheel of any vehicle of that size, drive at any speed you want and try and stop yourself from skidding and possibly killing someone, then come back and say the buses should still be on the roads.

[Neutral body 10]

Can we just step back a bit here?

"My road was clear, its crazy to pull them off."

This sort of comment is a bit silly when we look at the bigger picture.

Abbeydale road may well have been clear, as may have Blackstock road. These routes do however serve other parts of the City and were quite possibly bunched up elsewhere unable to move.

A few facts that people fail to understand are:

Drivers are only permitted to work for set periods of time before taking a break. This is law and must be adhered to irrespective of the weather conditions. Whilst it must be enforced, a driver who is stuck in a jam for hours would not be prosectuted, but must get back to the depot as soon as is practical.

When services get as badly affected as they were yesterday it is often easier to return them all to the depot and basically start again. This gets drivers who have just started or had their breaks into buses and everything can then get back to "normal" (for a given value of normal.) This period also allows easier access for gritters to clear the roads.

Great mention has been made (and quite rightly so) of the safety of the bus, driver passenger, and other road users and pedestrians. This should never be forgotten. If it means you have to walk home for once then so be it. I would sooner walk a few miles than have surgery to have a bus removed from my ribcage.

Modern buses are not any where near as safe to be driven on snow as older buses were. That is a fact. Automatic gearboxes have never been good on slippery surfaces. Yes most buses do have ABS but that only slows down the braking process on wet roads. On icy roads it does nothing, and against sliding sideways it offers no assistance either.

If you really want buses to continue in conditions like we had then you had better be perpared to pay much higher fares. This will be needed to pay all the increased insurance permiums after the claims are settled.

Get real and walk for once.

[Dozy 11]

Yes - SAFELY!!!! Have you ever driven a modern bus in snow? No? I thought not. Would you know how dangerous a bus in snow is? No, I thought not. Have you any idea how much damage a sliding bus can do? No, I thought not. Do you know how vulnerable a driver is in a modern, rear-engined bus? No, I thought not. Do your realise that he has no seat belt? No, I thought not. Do you realise that he has no air-bags? No. I thought Well, I do - I spent twelve weeks off work with head and neck injuries, L'Hermittes syndorme psychological damage,and all sorts, as a result of driving a bus in snow. Compensation from modern bus company? Zero. Speak not of which you know nothing.

My bold

 

If Sid stuck to that rule, his post count would still be in single figures!!!

[fozzybear210 10]

As previous threads show, there is no seat belt, no airbags, no din-built protection, no crumple-zone, nothing. When it happens, it happens,and you have to wonder how much they'd have to pay you to make it worthwhile. After 15 years in the Forces, I never felt so alone or so undervalued as in a bus in Sheffield, which is a terribly sad thing to have to say.

 

I totally agree. Going from a job where everyone respects you to one where everyone thinks you are just a pube of society, just because the buses werent out is totally demoralising.