Who feels guilty when they get info or software off the internet for free ?

[L00b 441]

Of course information should be free. Otherwise, you end up with everything patented and science would be screwed.

FYI, all patent-related information, including the contents of all patent applications throughout the world, are automatically published 18 months after they're filed (unless their content has some national security implications). And freely accessible. Go have a look at espacenet.

 

However, it costs a lot of money to put a patent application together, file it and prosecute it to grant. In one country only, never mind in several countries or regions (a patent is only relevant in the juridiction which grants it).

 

You might want to reformulate, so try again

Edited November 23, 2009 by L00b

[Justin Smith 10]

Justin

 

You seem to be being a bit contradictory with your statements. You say you are happy for people to come and use the excellent technical resource but unhappy that people do come to it. Lets get down to the nitty gritty here and talk costs. Precisely how much are those people who visit your site and buy nothing costing you and how much more does it cost you for a visitor to visit you site for say 10 seconds as opposed to one who might spend an hour there?

 

Surely a simple solution would be to make your forst page one with a big sign on it saying

 

IF YOU DO NOT INTEND TO BUY ANYTHING FROM ME LEAVE THIS SITE AT ONCE

 

Simple. BTW you might think about passing on this excellent and FREE advice to Amazon, EBay, HMV Play etc, I am sure they will be grateful

 

Perhaps I`m being unclear.

 

I`m more than happy for those who are not in the market for anything to learn as much as they want from my site. I can at least tell myself they`d buy from me if they actually needed anything. It`s an education thing.

 

I`m not happy for those who are in the market for purchasing an aerial to trawl through my site for hours (which they do), and then say to themselves, I need to buy something, but I don`t feel at all obligated to go and buy from the site which I`ve just learnt an enormous amount from. I`m not going to give them anything.

I`m going to go and buy it elsewhere.

I think they`re bleedin` cheeky b******s.

It`s a principle thing.

 

I have thought of putting a "Donate" button on my site, but if it was hardly ever used I`d get even more upset than I do now. So I don`t think I`ll bother.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Justin Smith

[L00b 441]

If (if) you are considering renovating your site, why not keep 'basic' information free, and 'advanced' information accessible upon payment? E.g. pdfs that can only be downloaded through your e-commerce suite?

 

You have justified the presence of a lot of the information as for 'educating': noone ever said education has to be free

 

In reference to the first post and the question of this thread: free information is what the Internet was originally all about, and there are many an occasion where, in all walks of private or corporate life, freely-accessible information has made a world of difference.

 

At the end of the day, only site authors/owners control what information gets published, so if you are unhappy about the way your information is being used, just change it, or remove it, or edit it, or whatever ...but don't blame others for using what you have given them for free.

Edited November 23, 2009 by L00b

[Justin Smith 10]

If (if) you are considering renovating your site, why not keep 'basic' information free, and 'advanced' information accessible upon payment? E.g. pdfs that can only be downloaded through your e-commerce suite?

 

You have justified the presence of a lot of the information as for 'educating': noone ever said education has to be free

 

In reference to the first post and the question of this thread: free information is what the Internet was originally all about, and there are many an occasion where, in all walks of private or corporate life, freely-accessible information has made a world of difference.

 

At the end of the day, only site authors/owners control what information gets published, so if you are unhappy about the way your information is being used, just change it, or remove it, or edit it, or whatever ...but don't blame others for using what you have given them for free.

 

The question of payments for "E Books" is a good one and has been raised before. It`d be a big pity if I were to go down that road because there are a lot of people out there who are interested in aerials etc but not after buying anything. It`s a pity to remove such a source of information.

 

You say "don`t blame others for using what you`ve given them for free". What I`m doing is questioning the conscience of those who make the conscious decision to not buy from us when they`ve learnt so much from us.

I know I would feel obligated to buy from a supplier who had helped me so much. At an absolute minimum that implies they`ve got lower principles than myself.

This raises a wider question, do fewer people feel guilt about anything these days ?

It also brings us back to where we started, many internet users do not value (in a monetary sense) information, they expect it to be free. Many of them also expect much else in the way of software (including music etc....) to also be free.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Justin Smith

[Justin Smith 10]

If you put info onto a web page it is publicly available. While you may think it wrong, it isn't, in the same way as linux/vlc are freely available and there is nothing wrong with using them and not donating. That is what happens when you make the info freely available.

 

It`s a conscience thing.

I would feel obligated, they don`t, therefore I have no respect for them.

 

And it isn`t the same as Linux, I need to sell aerials to pay myself and my staff.

[L00b 441]

You say "don`t blame others for using what you`ve given them for free". What I`m doing is questioning the conscience of those who make the conscious decision to not buy from us when they`ve learnt so much from us.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand where you're coming from: you are discussing a (supposed) moral obligation.

The fact of the matter is, there is none, in law or fact (other than not infringing your copyright in the website content, i.e. users may access and read your information, but not copy it without your say so). You took the decision to publish the information and make its access free of charge, it is now in the public domain with all that entails.

I know I would feel obligated to buy from a supplier who had helped me so much. At an absolute minimum that implies they`ve got lower principles than myself.

They may. Or not. It's completely irrelevant to a business context.

This raises a wider question, do fewer people feel guilt about anything these days ?

I doubt it. There is no guilt to be had, the information is free to access and consult. It's no different from, in the pre-Internet days, going to the library and read up about a topic. The Internet has just made this information gathering so much more convenient, but there's still no moral obligation

It also brings us back to where we started, many internet users do not value (in a monetary sense) information, they expect it to be free. Many of them also expect much else in the way of software (including music etc....) to also be free.

You have a small point in that comment. But, like everything else, if you own the information or content or whatever and you want paying for it (which is what you want, according to this thread), then don't give it away before you got the readies. That's just common sense.

[Justin Smith 10]

And

 

is just bad design

 

I just used the Webplus software.

This is a long standing problem which was discussed here :

http://forums.serif.com/showthread.php?t=53912

 

To be honest much of it goes straight over my head, but as I remember it there was no easy solution.

[ccm40408 10]

never sorry

[Justin Smith 10]

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand where you're coming from: you are discussing a (supposed) moral obligation.

The fact of the matter is, there is none, in law or fact.

 

 

Morals aren`t necessarily about laws or facts.

I wouldn`t feel obligated to buy from a supplier who`d helped me because of any law, it`s my moral compass. They`ve helped me, I should help them.

Obviously many people don`t think like that, which is a pity in more ways than one.

[Justin Smith 10]

And I'm sorry - there is no moral obligation to buy off you, and this does not mean that anyone has "lower principles" than you.

 

What more can I say, I would feel obligated, they don`t, surely that`s cut and dried ?

[Justin Smith 10]

The easiest way would be a free registration - make people have to sign up to get most of the info. That way you also get their e-mail addresses for mailshots

 

Also, if it is getting a lot of hits but not selling much you have 2 options:

 

1) Make it clearer - it is too jumbled atm - you can keep all the info but put less on a page

 

or 2) Accept external advertising - if you are getting as many hits as you say you are you are sat on a goldmine.

 

The thing about advertising is I would want total control over who advertised on my site. I wouldn`t want anything which competed with me and they would be those most likely to want to advertise ! I also wouldn`t want anything morally dubious.

I also hate Sky. I wouldn`t give them any help even for money, it`s a conscience thing. Haven`t I said that before ? ! ?

[zongamin 10]

What more can I say, I would feel obligated, they don`t, surely that`s cut and dried ?

 

But it doesn't mean they have lower principles than you. Imagine if you are buying a computer - you visit PC World to check it out but buy it from Laptops Direct because its £90 cheaper. Morals and Principles don't come into it.

 

I think the problem keeps coming back to the fact that your site is great as a source of knowledge, but not as an online shop.

A redesign, and a drastic reduction in the amount of information would help you achieve your goal of turning visits into purchases.

 

Why not put the information into a Wiki style site (but where only you can edit). Then pay someone to build you a modern, clean shop site? Keep the shop and the knowledge base separate?

http://www.wiki-site.com/index.php/Wiki_Creation_-_Create_A_Wiki_For_Free!

Edited November 23, 2009 by zongamin