600,000 xbox360 consoles blocked 4 chipping!!

[Karis 11]

This:

 

I wouldn't steal a Porche no, but if I could download one from the internet for nothing, I would...

 

Theft removes the original item, what we are talking about here is copyright infringement. If the law saw it as theft, people would be arrested for downloading copyright material, or for that matter buying dodgy discs at a car boot sale, but that never happens. Copyright infringement is purely a civil matter.

 

Call it "theft" all you want, but until the law says it is theft, then that's just your opinion not a fact.

 

is SUCH B*llocks! It really really is. It's still taking something that doesn't belong to you without paying.

 

Wrap it up in b*ll***** semantics all you like and justify it in your own wheedling way to try and lessen the crime, but it's still stealing.

 

God I hate posts like this. I think I've had it with this forum and the low life people with absolutely no morals who actually think it's funny or clever to download movies and games and music...

 

I just dearly and sincerly wish someone would come to your house and steal the work you'd spent weeks or months working on - just to show you exactly how it feels.

[Cyclone 10]

There is theft (legally defined as such) in the example you give: by the dodgy bloke selling the "dodgy discs at a car boot sale".

 

That is treated as a criminal matter,

Not as theft though.

in addition to the usual civil remedies (see sections 107 & 108, CDPA 1988 as amended, particularly in 2006, and accessorily the TM Act 94 as amended. I'll spare you details about registered trade mark infringement, which also involves criminal proceedings and makes things vastly easier than going after peeps for 'copyright infringement').

 

There has yet to be a test case in the UK against a serial uploader making his files available against a fee (of any sort), but I can't imagine the outcome would be any different than for one such "car boot dodgy bloke" (plenty of whom have earned themselves a criminal record for it ), since the means and motives are essentially the same, only the format differs.

 

Essentially the same reason and mechanism with which Rapidshare recently got (very heavily) slammed and fined in the German Courts.

 

FYI, like

 

There's actually a huge difference between making and selling knock off dvd's and freely uploading. I doubt that trading standards would be at all interested in something being given away, particularly if there was no intent to deceive (the trademark side of things that you mentioned).

There's also a massive difference between an individual uploading and a site that facilitates the downloading of material.

[Cyclone 10]

This:

 

 

 

is SUCH B*llocks! It really really is. It's still taking something that doesn't belong to you without paying.

 

Wrap it up in b*ll**** semantics all you like and justify it in your own wheedling way to try and lessen the crime, but it's still stealing.

 

God I hate posts like this. I think I've had it with this forum and the low life people with absolutely no morals who actually think it's funny or clever to download movies and games and movies...

 

Semantics are pretty important. You've only yourself to blame if you can't use the right words to express copyright infringement without saying theft.

I think you should use your free time away from the forum to look up what theft and stealing are and then compare them with copyright infringement.

[Karis 11]

Bless you for that enlightened piece of nonsense. I feel so much better now you've justified theft to yourself

 

Note to self: this IS the internet where anyone can post any amount of crap as though it carries some kind of weight.

[DaFoot 10]

I dont use p2p/torrent sites whatsoever, I download directly to the server in luxenbourg,The files are then downloaded to my pc securely and encripted so i guess i have that covered...i dont even get traffic shaped at all due to using ftp only and

not p2p...I doubt i will receive any strikes as its not illegal to download large files( they just dont know the contents).

 

If "they" found files were being downloaded to your server that shouldn't be (copyrighted blah blah) there will be ways to follow it back to you should they so desire I'm sure.

 

You have to pay for space on the server right? That will leave a trail for example. You have some details somewhere for the guys looking after the server to contact you/maintain your account? Maybe you bought the server and installed it in the datacentre yourself, I don't believe it would be installed without someone recording who you are in their datacentre.

 

Rhetorical questions. Just examples of other ways "they" could find you if they really wanted to chase it.

 

It may not be financially viable for them to follow up on an investigation, they may not have the will, but you better be sure it can be done.

[Cyclone 10]

Bless you for that enlightened piece of nonsense. I feel so much better now you've justified theft to yourself

 

Note to self: this IS the internet where anyone can post any amount of crap as though it carries some kind of weight.

 

Can you read?

 

I didn't try to justify or vilify anything, I explained to you (in vain apparently) what theft means.

 

Rather than just claiming that I'm wrong, why not try to prove it.

Find the legal definition of theft.

 

Anyway, weren't you leaving the forum?

I think I've had it with this forum

[Cyclone 10]

If "they" found files were being downloaded to your server that shouldn't be (copyrighted blah blah) there will be ways to follow it back to you should they so desire I'm sure.

 

You have to pay for space on the server right? That will leave a trail for example. You have some details somewhere for the guys looking after the server to contact you/maintain your account? Maybe you bought the server and installed it in the datacentre yourself, I don't believe it would be installed without someone recording who you are in their datacentre.

 

Rhetorical questions. Just examples of other ways "they" could find you if they really wanted to chase it.

 

It may not be financially viable for them to follow up on an investigation, they may not have the will, but you better be sure it can be done.

 

Numerous open proxies exist for routing your traffic.

You can hire or buy servers in countries that will not co-operate with local law enforcement.

If you're talking about taking extreme measures you can compromise and use boxes that belong to others.

To be really paranoid you could use an internet cafe (or laptop in starbucks) and a memory stick (or your legs to carry the laptop home).

You could rent a small apartment in a fake name, get broadband in a fake name and leave a pc running through which to route everything.

 

For every way they have of tracking you down, someone determined to hide their activity can do. Of course the ISPs and the government aren't interested at all, only the music companies care and they can't do anything without the cooperation of the ISPs who won't do anything unless forced to.

[DaFoot 10]

Fair enough.

On a personal note, I'd ratehr avoid servers run by people happy to block authorities... says too much to me about what else they might be involved in.

 

That's a personal choice I guess.

[L00b 441]

There's actually a huge difference between making and selling knock off dvd's and freely uploading.

If I can draw attention to the following portion of my post, which you quoted, and in which you will see that I am aware of the difference:

<...>

There has yet to be a test case in the UK against a serial uploader making his files available against a fee (of any sort), but I can't imagine the outcome would be any different than for one such "car boot dodgy bloke" (plenty of whom have earned themselves a criminal record for it ), since the means and motives are essentially the same, only the format differs.

<...>

I doubt that trading standards would be at all interested in something being given away, particularly if there was no intent to deceive (the trademark side of things that you mentioned).

"Intent to deceive" is not required to qualify trademark infringement. The trademark owner's consent is required for dealing in trademarked goods and services. No consent = infringement (even if the services/goods are legitimate, but EU exhaustion of rights notwithstanding of course). Not all trademark infringements arise from counterfeit goods, far from it.

There's also a massive difference between an individual uploading and a site that facilitates the downloading of material.

The difference is rather redundant, where the upload violates a license agreement (under the copyright(s)) in the first place, innit?

 

You can hire or buy servers in countries that will not co-operate with local law enforcement.

An ever-receding list. For highgreen's benefit, where copyright is concerned, Luxembourg has always been very happy to cooperate with local and overseas law enforcement. But some very major US softcos (eBay, Paypal, Google etc.) don't have their EU HQ there due to that fact, no. Relative to copyright, banking is still a bit sticky, see Needs another G20 to finally nail that one Edited December 3, 2009 by L00b

[highgreen 10]

If "they" found files were being downloaded to your server that shouldn't be (copyrighted blah blah) there will be ways to follow it back to you should they so desire I'm sure.

 

You have to pay for space on the server right? That will leave a trail for example. You have some details somewhere for the guys looking after the server to contact you/maintain your account? Maybe you bought the server and installed it in the datacentre yourself, I don't believe it would be installed without someone recording who you are in their datacentre.

 

Rhetorical questions. Just examples of other ways "they" could find you if they really wanted to chase it.

 

It may not be financially viable for them to follow up on an investigation, they may not have the will, but you better be sure it can be done.

 

 

 

paid for using a topup credit card bought from a shop...

and the server sellers have a false home address/yahoo email addy

cant see its really worth all the work searching for me...among the other 5000 server renters...

been fine so far as its been running for 47 months now...

 

Edited December 3, 2009 by highgreen