Question for those opposed to Immigration- Why are you opposed to it?

[Linesman 10]

Who says asylum seekers should go to the nearest safe country?

 

They go where they like, where there are established communities, no work permits, a chance of a job.

 

Stop making stuff up.

 

Now you are showing your true colours, international rules on asylum seekers is "That they go to the nearest safe country"

 

You really are digging yourself into a deep hole.

[Linesman 10]

•Over 520,000 refugees have fled the conflict in Sudan to neighbouring countries, yet only 265 Sudanese people applied for asylum in the UK in 2007

Well that's 265 too many

•About 80% of the world’s refugees are living in developing countries, often in camps. Africa and Asia host more than three quarters of the world’s refugees between them. Europe looks after just 14%.

Africas and asia are far better equipped climatewise to sustain a good healthy lifestyle.

 

 

•In 2008, the UK was ranked 17th in the league table of industrialised countries for the number of asylum applications per head of population

So what

For people who are genuinely interested (as opposed to those who just want to rant) there's lots more informative stuff with further links here. http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/practice/basics/facts.htm

Nobody is interested in all this waffle

 

The UK is not the nearest safe country to any of the above!

[boyfriday 21]

I went through a large comprehensive school and gained only modest exam marks.

 

I did not gain anything of real merit until I was out of the school and into college.

 

I was unruly and hard to control therfore I was lost before I started.

 

The same can be said for 85-95% of kids that go through the comprehensive state school system.

 

I have a high IQ but I bet my bottom dollar that mine is no different to the many that also went through school failing.

 

So to say that trained proffessional can only come from the higher social classes is gross stupidity.

 

What we need is a better educational system that can seperate and fast track potential.

 

We produce plenty of bright kids...we simply waste too many.

 

Obviously your classicsal education left you wanting in the reading and comprehension department. I did not say that professionals can only come from the higher classes, I said that's the way it is.

 

This article seems to suggest something similar and discusses the need to get more underrepresented students interested in it, presumably to go some way to address the shortages:

 

Research shows that 74% of the medical school population come from the highest three social classes, although just 38% of the working age population is from this background, said the Department of Health. Asian ethnic groups are underrepresented in applicants to nursing courses, and there is evidence that black and ethnic minority applicants have difficulty in securing course places

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2004/aug/10/students.accesstouniversity

[boyfriday 21]

Nobody is interested in all this waffle

 

.....I am.

[Linesman 10]

Britain is famous for its tolerance, sense of fair play and natural justice.

For being a soft touch you mean

 

We have long colonial links with many areas of the world.

So do many countries

 

No work permits, it's easy to find work if you're willing to work hard.

is that counting the 40,000 illegal immigrants lost in the system

 

Nice weather, pretty girls, that sort of thing.

What sort of thing?

[chimay 10]

who paid for their training?

The countries they come from.

 

That's the point, it's cheaper to recruit already qualified health professionals from overseas rather than train our own, assuming the raw talent was available here and willing to be trained for those professions.

 

Many of the overseas worker have to be retrained because their own qualifications aren't up to our standards. This is not only true for the NHS, it's also true for teachers.

[Linesman 10]

Naive?? You're proposing that 3 million people on the dole could be trained as doctors

So the only immigrants are doctors.

My experience of post war Britain began when I was born.

Well that's anytime between 1945 and 2009 hardly an answer.

I also have some valuable experience being the offspring of a post war immigrant, so have a good idea about the lives that they left, the new one that they were promised and their reasons for choosing it

So in actual fact your post war experience could be quite limited

[boyfriday 21]

So the only immigrants are doctors.

No, the immigrants who are doctors, are immigrants, what does that have to do with the 3 million unemployed?

Well that's anytime between 1945 and 2009 hardly an answer.

Quite right, but you asked an irrelevant question, if it had any relevance, then none of us would be able to comment on history that predates us as individuals

So in actual fact your post war experience could be quite limited

 

What does that have to do with immigration or post war British history and my knowledge of it?

[boyfriday 21]

Many of the overseas worker have to be retrained because their own qualifications aren't up to our standards. This is not only true for the NHS, it's also true for teachers.

 

Perhaps they do, but if thats the case, they dont have to undergo a new 5 year degree programme.

 

For example, I know that British dentists, doctors and nurses who wish to work in Canada & US have to do a course and exam to ensure their skills are commensurate with theirs.

[boyfriday 21]

So as a country we need to raise kids' expectations,why not invest in doing this instead of letting them think "celebrity" is the only way?

 

I dont disagree, but medicine is academically challenging and finding willing and suitable students to undertake the course in sufficient numbers to replace immigrant doctors would be impossible.

 

In fact I seem to be answering all these questions, let me ask you one.

 

If 30% of doctors are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, how on earth can these be replaced entirely by British doctors? I can only guess at the numbers of 3 A grade, A level students required to achieve that.

[mossdog 10]

I dont disagree, but medicine is academically challenging and finding willing and suitable students to undertake the course in sufficient numbers to replace immigrant doctors would be impossible.

 

In fact I seem to be answering all these questions, let me ask you one.

 

If 30% of doctors are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, how on earth can these be replaced entirely by British doctors? I can only guess at the numbers of 3 A grade, A level students required to achieve that.

The truth is different! lots of students with medical degrees cannot get employment ,I know two who are working in call centres! friends of theirs have gone back into further studies because employment is unavailable to them.This maybe because the NHS has become overstaffed in the last few years. Edited November 3, 2009 by mossdog

[boyfriday 21]

The truth is different! lots of students with medical degrees cannot get employment ,I know two who are working in call centres! friends of theirs have gone back into further studies because employment is unavailable to them.This maybe because the NHS has become overstaffed in the last few years.

 

The NHS may be overstaffed in certain specialities in certain regions, but not overvall. If there are unemployed doctors it's more to do with restrictions on funding, than a lack of demand for their skills.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your friends who are unemployed doctors, I sincerely believe that is a minority of them and they wont be unemployed for long, all of my son's friends who have graduated over the last 3 years have not experienced any difficulties in finding employment at all, provided they've been open minded about where they choose to work.

 

Nonetheless immigrant doctors have been employed here to fill vacant jobs, not to hang around waiting for them on the off chance or to dispossess British doctors of theirs.