Will Bob Geldof please go away

[mojoworking 10]

Originally posted by PopT

Do tell me if I'm missing the point of cancelling the African debts.

 

If most of the countries are not paying it off how can the cancellation benefit the African people.

 

It may help a few dictators to fund wars or line their own pockets but surely the aid programmes that directly help starvation or build new infrastructures and assist farming methods are a better way of helping.

 

In my Geldorf and his mates should be more involved in raising money to see this happen instead of fronting self centred activities.

 

I expect Mercedes and BMW will be receiving some lucrative orders pretty soon from those African heads of state now their debts have been cleared.

 

The S Class production line will be working overtime - especially the section fitting the bullet-proof body panels

[timo 10]

I have always disliked Geldof for his oafish, hectoring ways and arrogant, surly demeanour. I have never been able to see the slightest merit in any of his musical/theatrical offerings either. I have little time for his global exercises in self-promotion too. Perhaps beneath the grimy, uncouth exterior there beats a 'good heart', but his ideas are utopian and unrealistic. Until, as Mojo indicates, the corrupt governance of African countries changes to something resembling democracy, then giving money and cancelling debts seems utterly pointless.

 

Why should the situation re African governments change anyway? Who are we in the West to meddle in their affairs, and expect them to adopt our norms, values and political system? Africa, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, has always been a brutal, squalid place, viewed through any lens, never mind through my 'white, middle class, European' one. Africans have always warred, oppressed and colonised each other without any help from Arab and European interventions. It is time we stopped patronising the diverse population of this Continent. We treat them like wayward children, instead of expecting them to take charge and responsibility for their own affairs. It is too late to blame colonialism now. As for the 'colonialism' of the multi-national companies like Shell- everyone in the global network of production and exchange is subject to that, not just 'poor Africans'.

 

Yes, Geldof is an example of what Graham Greene referred to in 'The Quiet American' [though Geldof is neither quiet nor American]; he is the kind of person who always has the 'best reasons' for all the trouble he causes, whether it be the ludicrous 'Dunkirk' quip or his latest fatuous comments re E Bay.

[chill 10]

Originally posted by Hook

I do a lot of work for charity but don't like to talk about it, yadda yadda yadda

That rant wasn't aimed at you Hook, sorry if I made it look like it was.

[LordChaverly 10]

Originally posted by timo

I have always disliked Geldof for his oafish, hectoring ways and arrogant, surly demeanour. I have never been able to see the slightest merit in any of his musical/theatrical offerings either. I have little time for his global exercises in self-promotion too. Perhaps beneath the grimy, uncouth exterior there beats a 'good heart', but his ideas are utopian and unrealistic. Until, as Mojo indicates, the corrupt governance of African countries changes to something resembling democracy, then giving money and cancelling debts seems utterly pointless.

 

Why should the situation re African governments change anyway? Who are we in the West to meddle in their affairs, and expect them to adopt our norms, values and political system? Africa, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, has always been a brutal, squalid place, viewed through any lens, never mind through my 'white, middle class, European' one. Africans have always warred, oppressed and colonised each other without any help from Arab and European interventions. It is time we stopped patronising the diverse population of this Continent. We treat them like wayward children, instead of expecting them to take charge and responsibility for their own affairs. It is too late to blame colonialism now. As for the 'colonialism' of the multi-national companies like Shell- everyone in the global network of production and exchange is subject to that, not just 'poor Africans'.

 

Yes, Geldof is an example of what Graham Greene referred to in 'The Quiet American' [though Geldof is neither quiet nor American]; he is the kind of person who always has the 'best reasons' for all the trouble he causes, whether it be the ludicrous 'Dunkirk' quip or his latest fatuous comments re E Bay.

 

Well said Timo,

 

The reverential and respectful tone we are supposed to adopt in response to the outpourings and antics of this presumptuous clown is in my view severely misplaced. He may well have good intentions, but as we all know the road to hell is paved with these. He may be simply an ego on legs, finding a way of backing into the limelight. But regardless of his motives, he is peddling false nostrums. It is one thing to tap into the enormous fund of goodwill and guilt feelings in the West. It is quite another to put forward superficial, and in many cases counterproductive, 'solutions', however many headlines they grab, and regardless of whether or not they are on the agendas of the G8 and other global fora. Emotive slogans buttressed by highly dubious and misleading statistics won't solve Africa's problems - nor will the three nostrums currently being peddled by Geldof and swallowed hook line and sinker by his followers - i.e. debt relief, trade terms and aid. Without a fundamental change in the social infrastructures of African countries, any changes made to the above policies will have minimal effect. Geldof is more realistic and perhaps a little wiser than he was 20 years ago - but not by very much.

[timo 10]

Thankyou Lord C, for your kind words there, and excellent comments re the 'presumptuous clown'. Actually, as vituperative invective, that phrase of yours scores very high marks indeed. I am only worried that posters might start to think that Timo and Lord Chaverly are the same person, or even clones!

 

You are correct in my view re the problems of infrastructure in Africa. Until they can be solved, and I am not optimistic, the situation will continue. Perhaps the answer lies partly in better education, but who is to pay for it? We in the West or 'North' as some call it, will be expected to pay the bills.

[Apollo_C 10]

Whether you like him or not, Live8 is a great event of awareness. If every single one of the countries at G8 cut the third world debt, not only would the quality of living in these third world countries be substantially better, but, just as the people living in these nations would find a better quality of life, Bob Geldof MIGHT just find a bloody razor, for once...

[Hook 10]

Originally posted by Apollo_C

Whether you like him or not, Live8 is a great event of awareness. If every single one of the countries at G8 cut the third world debt, not only would the quality of living in these third world countries be substantially better, but, just as the people living in these nations would find a better quality of life, Bob Geldof MIGHT just find a bloody razor, for once...

 

I disagree. Most of the money will never see the people who it needs to help, Africa is a corrupt country and the money tends to find it's way towards the 'owners' of the countries who guzzle it for their own consumption.

 

Some countries it will help, and some African countries are desperatly working hide to rid themselves of corruption, but they are few and far between. Until the underlying problem is resolved, the money won't even affect those who really need it.

[LordChaverly 10]

Well, Timo, when the subject of doppelgangers was discussed a while back, I did suggest that you were my doppelganger on this forum (or vice versa).

 

Yes, education would be one possible improvement, if pursued in conjunction with many other things. The productive capacity of most African countries is currently abysmal. Without social and political stability (meant in its broadest sense), and without a significant change in the mentality with regard to means of wealth creation, individual responsibility and work disciplines, the productive capacity of most African countries is likely to remain limited at best. The example of the development path pursued by Asian Tiger economies is probably not a good one, because these countries were to a large extent imbued with a Confucian ethic eminently suited to the operation of a market economy. The nostrums peddled by Geldof will probably inhibit, rather than be conducive to, the changes in social, economic and political infrastructures so desparately needed by African countries.

[ANGELUS 10]

Just off topic slightly, but I wonder how much cash Sir Bob and Bono have actually shelled out of their collective wallets for this event + also donating in the past...

 

And they tell us to keep on doing it??

 

I want proof that sir bob and the rest of the celebs actually gets there cash out and puts into these events... they I will whole heartedly support everything they do.

 

But for now... No thanks.

[Apollo_C 10]

Originally posted by ANGELUS

Just off topic slightly, but I wonder how much cash Sir Bob and Bono have actually shelled out of their collective wallets for this event + also donating in the past...

 

And they tell us to keep on doing it??

 

I want proof that sir bob and the rest of the celebs actually gets there cash out and puts into these events... they I will whole heartedly support everything they do.

 

But for now... No thanks.

 

Well, someones gotta pay for the tofu filled hospitality buffet backstage...

[ANGELUS 10]

That'd be the public and or the government then.

 

I just wanna see proof that these celebs are actually putting their money where their mouths are.. and actually donating.

 

Then I would be glad to donate quite freely.

[Hook 10]

Originally posted by ANGELUS

That'd be the public and or the government then.

 

I just wanna see proof that these celebs are actually putting their money where their mouths are.. and actually donating.

 

Then I would be glad to donate quite freely.

 

Especially since they stand to make money from performing whether they're paid or not. Everytime Bob Geldof opens his gob somebody goes out and buys one of his or the Boomtown Rats albums, and it appears he's not paying royalities to the rest of the Rats and keeping them for himself

 

All the other acts will be sure to see sales increase as a result of their participation, yet I don't see any promises of the earnings being donated to charity. It's been mentioned in various circles of the media and there's still been no response to it - yet as soon as Damon Albarn moaned about the lack of 'black' acts on the bill, they added Snoop Dogg and Miss Dynamite. C'mon on stars, put ya money where ya mouth is!