Any Jazz fans left in Sheffield?

[Texas 10]

A good memory there Hodders. They were certainly gods alright, still are, even though a good number of them had feet of clay. That was a coincidence regarding writing to Humphrey Lyttelton, I once wrote to him about Bill Coleman, I didn't get a reply either. And him a calligrapher already. You would think he would have wanted to strut his stuff a little.

But to return to the worship of musicians. It seems to me I've always admired people who could make music. All my family were musicians of a sort, some good, some indifferent, but always entertaining. My uncle was the best, a very good piano player. He went to India during the war with the R.A.F. on ground crew or something. It didn't do him any good whatsoever India, if there was any illnesses going around, he got them. He spent a long time in the hills recuperating and playing piano. He still managed to get mentioned in dispaches, with the little oak leaf cluster and all. Years later he was showing me this decoration and saying that it was for dedication to duty. I said to him it was for playing the piano in the NAFFI up in Allahabad. He laughed like a drain at that. It was him showing me what bebop was all about back in the day. He was playing in a little dance band in Winsford, Cheshire, where we lived at the time. The band leader was a hotshot trumpet player who dug everything what was happening. He'd done some arrangments for the band and my uncle was trying out the piano parts in my grandma's front room. He was struggling a bit, and then the penny dropped 'Bleedin' 'ell, it's 'My Blue Heaven,' he said. Since those days, still remembering how it went I think the arrangement was lifted from a record by Joe Daniel's Hotshots.

[Hodders 10]

Texas

I think the reason I remember that period of my life so well is that it was quite a remarkable experience at the time. I normally can't remember what I did last week.

I remember Joe Daniel's Hotshots. When I was at school the sixth formers would let me go into the library to listen to their records and Joe featured quite a lot. This was during the war.

There were no musicians in my family and for a long time when I was a semi-pro if my father said he was coming to listen to me I would threaten not to play. I didn't mind playing in front of strangers but not people close to me.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Hodders
missing phrase

[Texas 10]

Joe Daniels, he was a drummer wasn't he? I only had the one recording of his 'Hotshots' and that was the very boppish 'My Blue Heaven'. I remember it sounded very contrived and it wasn't one of my all time favorit records but I can still remember it almost note for note.

I'm not sure but did Albert Hall play trumpet with JD? He was a good player, Albert Hall, or as Edmundo Ross used to call him, 'Alberto Halle'. Remember the Sid Phillips band? That was a damn good band. I seem to remember he had Kenny Ball for a while.

They were great days back then and I tended to absorb it all like a sponge. I still buy records (CDs anyhow), but it's all from the vintage years that I go for.

[fleetwood 10]

I have been attending the local Jazz Festival here in Vancouver for the last twenty years, in fact ever since they have called it a Festival, but have been listening to the music on the local scene for many more years than that. There has been a lot of great musicians from here or that have settled here for one reason or another. But to quote from the song 'times, they're a changin.' The Festival takes on a lot of venues, some paid ones in the city, some not. The site itself comprises quite a few performance area's which are always free and which has got nothing to do with the caliber of play for the most part, but they don't seem to have the big bands anymore (not in the regular format anyhow). In recent years they have featured touring college and military contingents, which were great with great musicianship, my pet peeve being, why don't they play more music from the big band era and not their own stuff? but that's just me. It seems most of the medium to larger groups on tour these days, I would lump together, as playing a 'World Music', i'm not saying the jazz influence is not there or that individual musical ability is lousey, it all gets to sound the same after awhile. I've got to say, i've walked out on more indoor sitdown 'experimental' (my words, did'nt know it at the time) groups, you get to commiserate with all the others that walked out with you, muttering, 'what a load crap'! Two instances comes to mind, a British group here on a British Arts Council Grant, the girl trombonist playing these guttural, squealing sounds and lifting her leg every time she let out a blast, not only did it sound disgusting, it looked it also. Or the Dutch group also on a grant, where the so called percussionist runs up a ladder to drop his cymbal with a resounding crash at certain times in the piece, I kid you not! You read the programme and takes your chances, sometimes you just don't know what to expect or what you are letting yourself in for, although, I have got better over the years. I don't know the terminology, but is this what they call 'freeform something or other'?

Edited May 28, 2009 by fleetwood

[Hodders 10]

Fleetwood

It's rather like the classical composer (I can't remember his name) some of whose works have blank pages where the musicians do nothing but count the bars and the audience sit in silence. Artistically equivalent to pickled sharks and unmade beds.

[Texas 10]

Sounds like you're getting into the area of comedy bands there Fleetwood. Comedy without the laughs. I know what you mean though, and it's bloody depressing.

Are you thinking of John Cage, Hodders? I seem to remember he did that kind of thing. Or Stockhausen, might be wrong there though.

But while we're on this tack, there's a rock musician by the name of 'Blood' Olmer, he did an album of things, one of which went by the title of 'You Will be Shot'. I nearly died laughing. It was a pure aural cartoon. Al Hibbler would've gone crazy.

[fleetwood 10]

Fleetwood

It's rather like the classical composer (I can't remember his name) some of whose works have blank pages where the musicians do nothing but count the bars and the audience sit in silence. Artistically equivalent to pickled sharks and unmade beds.

Love that phrase Hodders. Further comments on the 'Festival', it encompasses

a large area, with a couple of big open stages, which are surrounded by food, souvenir and merchandise vendors. There is an enclosed historical site close by where the majority of smaller groups perform, incidentally I have e neat little story with a Sheffield connection that happened to me in this very building a few years ago, I am going to save this scenario for another time though. Getting back to the large outdoor setup, they seem to feature an overabundance of Latin American style bands, don't get me wrong I like the rhythms the percussive sounds interwoven with good instrumental soloists but not all the time, it can get a little tiring. I certainly did,nt coin the phrase 'World Music', a guy that lived close to this event, wrote the paper and in essence said ' I have my windows open on these usually beautiful hot days during this event and I can hear all the different bands, but it all sounds like some 'world type music', not Jazz, i'm inclined to agree with him.

Edited May 29, 2009 by fleetwood

[Texas 10]

Regarding my last post on this thread mentioning a track 'You Will be Shot'. I tend to have notebooks all over the place in which I jot down allsorts of stuff. While looking thro' one of them today I found a note I'd made on the aformentioned track. It was from an album called 'Naked City' by a group of the same name and led by an alto player name of John Zorn, it also features Bill Frisell and 'Blood' Ulmer I think. I realize all this may not interest anybody at all, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

[bazjea 10]

Joe Daniels, he was a drummer wasn't he? I only had the one recording of his 'Hotshots' and that was the very boppish 'My Blue Heaven'. I remember it sounded very contrived and it wasn't one of my all time favorit records but I can still remember it almost note for note.

I'm not sure but did Albert Hall play trumpet with JD? He was a good player, Albert Hall, or as Edmundo Ross used to call him, 'Alberto Halle'. Remember the Sid Phillips band? That was a damn good band. I seem to remember he had Kenny Ball for a while.

They were great days back then and I tended to absorb it all like a sponge. I still buy records (CDs anyhow), but it's all from the vintage years that I go for.

 

Remember seeing Joe Daniels Band at Butlins late 50s early 60s.

He had Clarinettist Tony Coe playing for him

Edited June 3, 2009 by bazjea

[Hodders 10]

Texas

You mention Sid Phillips. The archive section at the Albert Hall sent me copies of two programmes for our concerts there with Sarah Vaughan and to my surprise, because I had completely forgotten, Sid Phillips was on the show. On the January 31st show the programme was: Sid Phillips; 'Jazz at the Prom', the members of which were chosen from Bert Courtley (who I later played with), Lennie Bush, Jack Fallon, Dill Jones, Tony Kinsey, Jimmy Skidmore, Ronnie Scott, Tony Crombie;the Rowberry Band and Sarah Vaughan.

On the 22nd February show the programme was: the Rowberry Band; the Ronnie Scott Group; Mary Lou Williams (who I had also forgotten about); Sarah Vaughan.

The second concert (at the end of the tour) was arranged quickly because the first one was a sell-out.

You mention Albert Hall, a very fine player. When I was in the R.A.F. we used to go into Bath on Sundays to the band shows at The Pavilion. I first saw Albert Hall there playing with the Tito Burns Sextet (Octet?). Years later I went with Brian Haden (Rabin, Kirchin), an alto player I worked with, to call on Roy Willox the well known alto player, who was playing, I think, in Coventry. I can't remember the band but as it was Roy Willox it might have been Heath. When we went into the band room Albert Hall was sitting on the floor, leaning against the wall, tootling away. I'm pretty sure that Hall played with Heath for a time. In 1952 we played at the famous 'Jazz Jamboree' at the Gaumont State Theatre, Kilburn. The other big bands on the show were Ted Heath and Jack Parnell. Jack's band was by far the most exciting of the two. Jack did a drum duet with Phil Seamen, a tremendous drummer. It went down a storm. Later Heath went on and Ronnie Verrel did a feature on 'Hawaiian War Chant'. During his solo every member of the band produced a pair of bongoes from under their chairs and played along with him. You can imagine the effect. I was standing in the wings alongside Phil Seamen, listening. As Ronnie Verrel came off he walked past us and Phil jokingly said "You *** cheat" or words to that effect. Albert Hall was playing lead with Jack Parnell then, having taken over from Jimmy Watson, who you will remember played with the 'Squadronnaires'.

The sequel to that day was that Jack Parnell was doing a gig that night at the Feldman Club (I've got the programme with the advert in) and Albert Hall, who had just joined the band, had a commitment that he couldn't get out of. Jack was looking desparately for a lead trumpet for that night. All the Heath players were committed so he asked Arthur if he could recommend one of his boys. As I was a better sight reader than our lead trumpet, Arthur recommended me. Jack pleaded with me to do it but I had seen the pad and there were notes on the lead trumpet part that I couldn't even reach, having played second for so long. In the end our lead trumpet, Douglas Arthur, a geat player, went.

The other two trumpets with Jack were Jimmy Deuchar and Joe Hunter. So I missed my chance of playing alongside two of the best jazzers in the business.

[Texas 10]

Now, I never knew that Albert Hall played lead trumpet with the Jack Parnell band. So that's something I've learned. I've got to say Hodders your last post is like a roll call of some of my musical hero's. My first meeting with Albert Hall was in Winsford, he was with Tito Burns then, and they were doing a gig at the Strand Palace,(where my uncle played piano. I was about 15-16 I guess. I remember he used to blow like Dizzy Gillespie, with the cheeks out and all. Not as much as Dizzy though. I remember we all went across to the pub. I'd drunk beer before but I didn't tell my uncle. I was most impressed by the jokes and stuff and Ivor (the resident bass player) who sank about four double rums in 10 minutes.

And Bert Courtley, another good trumpet man. Wasn't he married to Kathy Stobart?

Do you remember Woolf Philips? I never realized at the time he was Sid Philips brother, back in the 40's-50s I mean. He was a good player and band leader.

And another 'do you remember'. A clarinet player, second name Ingoldmells, was with Edmundo Ross.

[fleetwood 10]

I lap this stuff up, thanks Hodders for all the info, a few of my recollections on some of the names you have thrown out there. I remember Albert Hall when he played for Tito Burns and his sextet and I saw him a few times. All the other names bring back great memories and who I saw many times over the years. I've mentioned this before, while on holiday in the mid 50's in Norfolk, I went to a local dance in Yarmouth (band unknown) and who should be sitting in the trumpet section of this house band but Jimmy Deucher with his shades on. I loved the drum duets that Jack Parnell and Phil Seamen performed, usually closing out the first half of the concert. My recollections on Ted Heath's 'Hawaiian War Chant' featuring Ronnie Verrel, not only did the band produce these other Toms which everybody played but they darkened the house lights and everything was in fluorescent and it appeared as though the sticks were floating by themselves, it was a real showstopper, I suppose it had to be around that same time Oscar Peterson was touring either Europe or Britain (or both?) Can't recall the package name (not JATP) anyway Tony Kinsey was his drummer and they were not getting along, I think Peterson was saying things like 'not keeping the beat' and that Kinsey was 'to busy' and playing the 'Bop drummer' and just not backing him properly. I remember reading about it in the 'Melody Maker', how it was resolved or if they parted company before the tour concluded, I don't know.

Edited June 4, 2009 by fleetwood