God does NOT exist! (Part 3)

[Bloomdido 10]

Want to debate religion? Go here. You get more than just Grahame to argue with.

[Wildcat 10]

When you contemplate or behold God, are you not moved at least to consider the possibility that God is the work of a Great Artist or Sculptor?

[YourHandyMan 10]

We know exactly how waterfalls are formed and pretty much how our sun came about, god wasn't involved.

 

If you know how a watch is put together and how it works, does that really make you believe that there wasn't a watch-maker behind the beautiful design and genius invention?

[Bloomdido 10]

The blind watchmaker arguement! Who created the watchmaker? Believing in a creator poses more problems than believing in the scientific explaination of how we got here (complete with gaps). Over a hundred billion stars in this galaxy and as many galaxies again and god created life on one tiny planet in one corner of the universe and wrote an instruction book that is ambiguous and woefully out of date. Come on.

[Wildcat 10]

If you know how a watch is put together and how it works, does that really make you believe that there wasn't a watch-maker behind the beautiful design and genius invention?

 

The watch was probably made in a factory, by a machine and designed by a committee.

[flamingjimmy 10]

If you know how a watch is put together and how it works, does that really make you believe that there wasn't a watch-maker behind the beautiful design and genius invention?

 

Well no, but I know how waterfalls are formed and like I said, it doesn't involve god.

 

Another good point is the watchmaker didn't just appear out of nothing. Who designed god?

 

And once you've answered that, who designed the thing that designed god?

 

etc. forever!

 

In short, a very poor argument, I expected better from someone offering bible classes (a bit silly of me really).

[*_ash_* 88]

Suppose u found a mobile phone in the sand and i told u it has evolved from a

battery to a cover and thus a mobile phone and created itself!

 

would u be willing to accept that theory?

 

If an ape found that phone in the sand, do you believe that given enough time, it would be able to work out how to use it?

[K1-KHAN 10]

A monkey maybe! u neva!!! lol

[K1-KHAN 10]

Are you for real?

 

Evolution can not be applied to inanimate objects:loopy:

 

the phone theory was just a example in

a rhetoric context

a theory is just a theory and not fact!

 

darwins theory is just a theory and he himself said that there

was missing links in the theory

 

science and the church have been at war since the the start of time

because science contradicts what the bible says

and when darwin came out with

his theory it was accepted straight away because it goes against the church

not because it was fact!

[Baz1 29]

Well no, but I know how waterfalls are formed and like I said, it doesn't involve god.

 

Another good point is the watchmaker didn't just appear out of nothing. Who designed god?

 

And once you've answered that, who designed the thing that designed god?

 

etc. forever!

In short, a very poor argument, I expected better from someone offering bible classes (a bit silly of me really).

 

That is a weak argument because infinite regression does not exist.

 

If there was more than one God (i.e. one made the other etc..) then who is GOD?? Because if one made God then by default, HE has to be God....and so fourth.

 

David Hilbert, a famous mathematician states:

"The infinate is no where to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought"

 

Logically if you look at it this way- if God made God and so fourth, then how did God make the Universe and everything else-He would not have had time as the endless chain of making Gods would be still happening....

 

God is not subject to cause and effect.

 

Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence(as is common knowledge in scientific fields that time, space and matter came into existance from the Big Bang).

 

The way I see it, personally, is to keep studying and researching- as scientists do today and I honestly believe the truth will reveal itself (maybe not in our lifetime though).

 

Questions like:

 

How can nothing explode? Nothing comes from nothing.

Where did all that matter and energy come from?

What caused its release?

How did this explosion of everything (from nothing) order itself?

How can simplicity become complexity?

Where did the chemical elements come from?

Where did the mathematical laws and physical properties come from?

How do we explain the design, complexity and fine-tuning inherent in spiral galaxies, solar systems, and stars?

[quisquose 10]

If you know how a watch is put together and how it works, does that really make you believe that there wasn't a watch-maker behind the beautiful design and genius invention?

The watch was probably made in a factory, by a machine and designed by a committee.

 

Yes, not forgetting the evolutionary process of design with the consumer providing the natural selection.

 

K1-KHAN, the previous person (in a very long line) to propose the argument from design with the mobile phone, is yet to answer my question on who actually designed the Sony W850i found in the sand.

 

If he/she needs to use this argument, then it's for a god that is nothing like the god he/she is prepared to worship, wear silly clothes for, or make silly rules about what he/she can eat or drink etc.

 

This is yet another example of the cognitive dissonance of certain believers, when they are prepared to use whatever argument suits, even if it contradicts with what they actually believe.

Edited July 10, 2009 by quisquose

[carosio 186]

We accept without question other things that we cannot see. When we look at a beautiful painting or admire a fine sculpture, we do not doubt the existence of a painter or a sculptor. So when we contemplate a waterfall or gaze at a sunset, should we not be moved at least to consider the possibility that they are the work of a Great Artist or Sculptor?

 

We do accept things we cannot see, but behind that acceptance is some form of logic and rationality, and not without question; that is how we begin to understand. For example, we thought (or were told) that the earth was flat, which on the face of it was plausible, we questioned it and found that it was round. We thought that the sun revolved around the earth, we questioned it, and found it to be the opposite.

 

The waterfall is the natural result of gravity and water taking its course, the painting a human art form. The former was never intended for our pleasure, the latter was.