Train Station closed to non ticket holders

[Grandad.Malky 11]

The barrier staff allegedly stopped hundreds of people accessing the platforms with out tickets in one day; nobody can run a business that is haemorrhaging money at that rate

[prettygood 10]

EMT offer station footbridge solution - http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/BREAKING-EMT-offer-station-footbridge.5268488.jp

 

The article isn't clear on whether the electronic passes will be offered to all Sheffield residents or only those in Park Hill and Norfolk Park. Either way it's still not good enough for two reasons:

 

1) The footbridge was partly set up with public money so should not be restricted to the public. No taxpayer should have to apply for a pass to walk over a bridge that they themselves paid for. It should remain with no barriers.

 

2) An electronic pass means data collection. If Sheffield residents have to apply for one then they'll be asked for their name, address and possibly other details. It then becomes very easy to use a chip on the card to log every time they walk over the footbridge. This sort of "customer usage data" is something that all large businesses crave. Think of it as a sort of market research.

 

For example, I don't like the mass data collection in modern society so I pay for things with cash. This includes train tickets. When I buy a train ticket with cash there is no record that I've used the train station. If I have to apply for an electronic card to cross the footbridge, there is then a record of me using the station. East Midlands Trains have therefore managed to acquire additional information on me that they didn't have before. I don't regard that as acceptable.

 

I've mentioned in a previous thread about the proposed residents' pass actually being a Yorcard:

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=4193082&postcount=457

 

It seems to me that this whole "concessions" approach from East Midlands Trains is actually just a ruse to get more people to have a Yorcard. In fact I can't help thinking now that its the data collection that East Midlands Trains have actually wanted all along.

[Grandad.Malky 11]

Think of it as a sort of market research.

 

:

 

Think of it as a sort of mass hysteria.

[scoop 10]

The barrier staff allegedly stopped hundreds of people accessing the platforms with out tickets in one day; nobody can run a business that is haemorrhaging money at that rate

 

Stopping people using the bridge is not the only way to prevent ticket fraud.

[Spotter14 10]

alternatively grow up and realise that errors are made by systems whether human or automated on a regular albeit infrequent basis, personally i';ve never had a problem with ticket machines on rail stations ...

 

 

That is funny being told to grow up by someone calling himself Zippy !

 

I have never had problems with any other ticket machine other than the Northern one at the station and when I complained the booking office say it has nothing to do with them and they have many problems with the 2 Northern machines at Sheffield which they think are being taken out. They advised me not to use them as there is no way to rectify any errors ok !

[Douglas J 10]

EMT offer station footbridge solution - http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/BREAKING-EMT-offer-station-footbridge.5268488.jp

 

Interesting twist by EMT, presumably to give a deliberately misleading impression. Apparently EMT said the checks "prevented hundreds of people trying to fraudulently access train services without a valid ticket". Exactly how did they distinguish between those people dishonestly trying to travel without paying and those honestly trying to cross the bridge without intending to go on a train at all? Of course they couldn't.

[scoop 10]

Interesting twist by EMT, presumably to give a deliberately misleading impression. Apparently EMT said the checks "prevented hundreds of people trying to fraudulently access train services without a valid ticket". Exactly how did they distinguish between those people dishonestly trying to travel without paying and those honestly trying to cross the bridge without intending to go on a train at all? Of course they couldn't.

 

Exactly, their is no way to know until the person is on the train without a ticket.

 

Seems like Malky already fell for that little bit of spin.

[Plain Talker 11]

Interesting twist by EMT, presumably to give a deliberately misleading impression. Apparently EMT said the checks "prevented hundreds of people trying to fraudulently access train services without a valid ticket". Exactly how did they distinguish between those people dishonestly trying to travel without paying and those honestly trying to cross the bridge without intending to go on a train at all? Of course they couldn't.

 

It sounds as accurate a reflection of their work as the previous "surveys" where they didn't poll and collate the numbers using the bridge and for which purpose, they just handed a card to the foot-passenger to be given to the staff member at the other end. The flaw with this was that the numbers weren't logged. The cards were simply handed to the next foot passenger going the other way, to be carried across the bridge to be handed back to another member of staff at the other end.

 

This really is a foul up of epic proportions, as well as what is, in my opinion a gross over representation of the numbers of alleged fraudulent travel.

 

No reasonable person would say it's okay to fare-dodge, and yes, of course steps need to be taken, to ensure that dodgers don't get away with it,and are stopped.

 

However, alienating genuine foot passengers, disadvantaging those who are legitimately passing across the bridge, and treating all passengers as potential criminals is not the way to do this well!

[garrence 10]

No reasonable person would say it's okay to fare-dodge, and yes, of course steps need to be taken, to ensure that dodgers don't get away with it,and are stopped.

 

Putting conductors on trains would seem the obvious method! I wonder if they've thought of that.

[garrence 10]

2) An electronic pass means data collection. If Sheffield residents have to apply for one then they'll be asked for their name, address and possibly other details. It then becomes very easy to use a chip on the card to log every time they walk over the footbridge. This sort of "customer usage data" is something that all large businesses crave. Think of it as a sort of market research.

 

Quite so.

 

There is a concerted push to use contactless cards for travel passes. They register a unique number and each card is logged every time it's seen. So yes, this proposal would mean that citizens have no choice but to be logged each time they pass through.

 

Electronic travel cards are quite advanced in Scotland where they were given to old people and young people to replace their paper passes and, conveniently for Big Brother, log their movements.

 

They are now spreading them further to use as library cards and to access services, each usage being logged. Scottish kids can't get their school meals without one. It's actually a sneaky ID card.

 

The end game will come in a few years with the national ID cards and the massive database behind them. These cards work in the same way so you'll find yourself waving your card at gates, scanners, bus drivers etc several times a day otherwise life will become very inconvenient.

 

A massive database of innocent people's movements will be built up. Criminals etc will of course suffer the inconvenience of working around it all.

 

I much prefer single-use paper tickets. These allow me to travel anonymously and I can keep control of who I give personal information to.

[Cyclone 10]

I'm amused that the only way they feel they can justify this is to blatantly lie and claim that everyone who was turned away was intending to get on a train without a ticket.

 

Finger in the air, out of the hundreds turned away, I'd guess that 10% might have been intending to travel without an attempt to pay, maybe less.

[nohands 10]

One issue that has been reported elsewhere (on South West Trains, I believe) is that the ticket machines do not always sell the cheapest ticket for the journey passengers are making. This is prevalent around the end of the morning peak, where trains depart just after the changeover time, but tickets cannot be bought until said changeover time.

 

At present the people in ticket offices are pretty good at explaining ticket types and validity. The standard of service from machines is not as good.