God does NOT exist!

[Baz1 29]

Using emotion to justify the existence of god is a common fallacy among theists, not atheists.

 

I have heard plenty times (and this thread is proof) where atheists use 'evil in the world' syndrome to convince themselves that god does not exist- that is EMOTION. It proves NOTHING.

[EbonyBranch 10]

Perhaps you'd care to point out the emotional bits of my last few long posts. When you've done that, can you answer the arguments I've made? As far as I can tell, you're the one getting upset and emotional, not me. I'm sitting here with a little grin on my face enjoying your incoherence!

[Hollsman 10]

I'm not sure that you can see where I'm coming from actually - it would be a huge stretch of the imagination to say that I live purely by faith. There are days when I doubt God's existence.

I think you're trying to draw some distiction between a 'learned' or 'inherited' faith rather than one that's been arrived at independently, but I'm not sure that such a distinction makes the one more valid than the other.

 

Note the highlighted where you only prove to yourself that you believe in a God.

 

You have to answer yourself what is imiginary or what is passed onto you and what you believe in yourself as a result of your experiences.

 

Are you religious?

[Halibut 12]

You have to answer yourself what is imiginary or what is passed onto you and what you believe in yourself as a result of your experiences.

I have asked and answered those questions, thanks.

Are you religious?

I don't go to church these days except for weddings and funerals, if that's what you mean.

[EbonyBranch 10]

I have heard plenty times (and this thread is proof) where atheists use 'evil in the world' syndrome to convince themselves that god does not exist- that is EMOTION. It proves NOTHING.

 

Btw, the problem of evil is something theologists debate much more than atheists. That's because it really is a problem for you if you believe in an all-good, all-powerful deity. It's not a problem for atheists. To me, the world looks just the way I'd expect it to look without a god.

[Goon 10]

Explain rather than insult.

 

and

 

What a load of garbage but then looking at some of your previous posts its hardly suprising.

 

 

Pot, kettle?

[Moosey 10]

Realistically, belief in a god is such a personal thing that you're never going to convince someone of the opposite belief, so I don't see the point in trying. I'm never going to convince someone who has strong faith that there is no God. Just not going to happen, and if they're happy, why try?!

 

For me, it isn't about proving anything doesn't exist. No one has yet prove to me that god does for example, and that's what I rely on. There's no need to dis-prove something until it's proven, or there's strong evidence to suggest it's proven. People believe in horoscopes, but until someone provides me with evidence to suggest they're actually a "genuine" way of seeing the future or whatever, I won't bother myself trying to investigate whether they are.

 

If someone said they had proof that there was an 8 armed man in the centre of the earth ruling everything, I'd look at the same principle - prove it to me. Until it's proven, I wont believe it. I don't mind if others do though. Their choice.

[Tipex 10]

I dont think anyone should question the existence of god.

 

I'v had love in good times and also in bad. I've failed some of the bad times which makes me a weak man, but in that time alone i've reflected on my mistakes and put them right.

 

I think we're selfish because we expect everything to go right and what use would that be when we must go threw the bad times in order to learn?

 

Dont blame god for the doings of man.

[Hollsman 10]

What does God have to do with the evil? Its been discussed before.

 

I think that poster was highlighting the fact that any God if She/He existed, would never see evil performed on this earth as is does.

 

Do you think a God can be male or female out of all the Gods on this earth? Do you think a cow can be sacred for example?

 

Example, God didn't make Hitler kill all those Jews- Hitler pressed the button in the gas chamber and same goes for anyone else who commits an act of killing/murder/theft etc.. Humans kill for thier own reasons- evil exists because humans have the free choice to do right or wrong.

 

To your way of thinking then, who made Hitler? People maybe? Why does the murder of Jews upset you so much in your deliverance or protection of a certain people, are you Jewish?

 

I only ask as its in bad taste to bring such things up in a religious debate as the bible never accounted for the likes of Hitler or hating the Jews, this was about did God exist.

 

Hence when humans commit evil, and commit major sins, such as murder, mass thievery, and other major acts of evil this has nothing to do with God, it is not God's fault, it is the fault of that human being, God is free from what this evil person has done because God does not sanction nor call for it.

 

You obviously realise its not a Gods fault so it must be a person or people through greed surely? If a God cannot stop someone committing crimes then surely democracy and man made law stops all that nasty stuff?

 

God is obsolete in all this as he has no say and isn't proven, surely?

 

Killing someone without a reason (like self defence/ridding the world of an evil person- i.e. execution- an eye for an eye type of thing) is what I am refering to- fighting to defend oneself from tyrancy/occupation/invasion is not murder(unless innocents are killed for nothing- which EVERYONE should condemn be it commited by christians, atheists, muslims, hindus, tamil tigers etc..

 

An eye for an eye is an old testament term that would would make the world go blind but you condone war and an eye for an eye on the other hand do you not? What is tyranny in your book that you try to disguise your meaning so much when it suits you over religion?

 

You seem to think that ridding the world of evil people is okay? Who decides who is evil in your mind?

 

So don't use 'emotion' to try and justify the existence of God-that is the first fallacy atheists make. Appealing to emotions is not fact finding or using logic.

 

And believing in a faith is logic? I'm all ears to your explanation.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Hollsman

[Hollsman 10]

I dont think anyone should question the existence of god.

 

I'v had love in good times and also in bad. I've failed some of the bad times which makes me a weak man, but in that time alone i've reflected on my mistakes and put them right.

 

I think we're selfish because we expect everything to go right and what use would that be when we must go threw the bad times in order to learn?

 

Dont blame god for the doings of man.

 

You can never blame someone that doesn't exist for the exploits of man or woman.

 

Religion is a tool often used to control people and more often than not to segregate them less their Bishops/Imams choose to separate them and religion is only a tool to soothe those who suscribe to it which is a personal choice.

 

The more people move away from it the better we will all be.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Hollsman

[pcspb1 10]

Its' all down to what each individual has their belief in. Life is intrinsically Yin and Yang, everything, be it material or otherwise has an opposite. What one believes, another won't. If there is a God, ultimately when you take it down to brass tacks, does it matter what a person calls him?, or indeed how that person should choose to believe? I have worshipped because I choose to believe, and I have done so with many a different faith.

Conversely, if a person should choose not to believe, should they be harassed by those that do? All of the evil in the world is borne by religious struggles, where one attempts to proffer forcibly their views on another.

 

Why Am I Here? - A Fundamental Question

Why am I here on earth? Where did I come from? What am I worth? Do I have any intrinsic value? Do I serve a purpose? These are all fundamental questions. They are life's "big questions." How you answer these questions determines how you see the world and how you treat the world. Because you are a part of the world, how you see the world also determines how you see and treat yourself. So, it's important that we resolve these fundamental questions. And it's important that we discover the honest truth. Wrong answers to important questions aren't helpful.

 

Where do we begin in our search for the truth? We begin at the beginning. Perhaps the most fundamental question is: does God exist? It's fundamental because our answers to the other "big questions" actually hinge on how we answer this significant question. For example…

 

Why Am I Here? - The Atheistic Worldview

Why I am here? Well, if God doesn't exist, that means that life must have come about through some natural impersonal, unintelligent, and ultimately purposeless process. That means we're ultimately as purposeless as the very process which brought us into existence. Life's just an accident and so are you. You can find short term reasons for living like you're here because your parents wanted to have children, etc., but ultimately you're just an accident and so are your parents. Life is one big accident. You serve no purpose, you'll cause no lasting effect, and in the grand scheme of things your life is utterly meaningless. Without a Creator in the beginning, there was nobody around to put you here on purpose which means you aren't here for a reason. It's that simple.

 

As far as asking "what am I worth," without God we don't actually have an intrinsic value, at least not an objective one. Our worth is ultimately subjective. You might think you're worth something but someone else might think you're worthless, and as long as there's no transcendent Assessor to have the final say, no one's ultimately right or wrong. In fact, without God there's really no such thing as right or wrong. John Dewey (1859-1952), the famous 20th century atheist explained, "There is no God and there is no soul. Hence, there are no needs for the props of traditional religion. With dogma and creed excluded, then immutable truth is also dead and buried. There is no room for fixed, natural law or moral absolutes."1

 

Philosophers generally agree: without an absolute God to make the rules, there is no such thing as a moral absolute; there are only preferences. You don't actually have a right to live; you just prefer not to die. Someone else on the other hand might want to kill you regardless of how you feel about it, and who is to say that they're wrong? In the absence of absolute morality, power reigns supreme; the strong survive and the weak get exploited.

 

Why Am I Here? - The Theistic Worldview

Why am I here? Well, if God does exist, that means He is ultimate reality. If He created you for a reason, that's ultimately why your here. If you're valuable to Him, that's ultimately what you're worth. What He says is right is absolutely right and what He says is wrong is absolutely wrong. We may be free moral agents with the freedom to make moral decisions, but that doesn't mean we can choose what actually is right or wrong; that just means we're capable of choosing to be right or wrong. God makes the rules. The question is: will He enforce them? Will God ever hold us accountable for our moral decisions? The prevailing instinct among the majority seems to be that, yes, God will hold us accountable. It's as if most people instinctually know that one day they're going to have to explain all the bad things they've done (which of course means that they also instinctually know that there is such a thing as moral absolutes).

 

The point is, if God really does exist, terms like "justice," "purpose," and "morality" aren't abstract notions: God has a purpose for you (that's why He made you), He's the one who instituted morality, and in the end He'll see that justice prevails. That's a comforting thought to some, but it's terrifying to others.

 

So don't begin by asking, "Why am I here?" Begin by asking, "Does God exist?" If He doesn't exist there's really no point in asking "why am I here?" - everything is ultimately pointless. And if He does exist, you'll discover your reason for living when you discover who He is.

[EbonyBranch 10]

Realistically, belief in a god is such a personal thing that you're never going to convince someone of the opposite belief, so I don't see the point in trying. I'm never going to convince someone who has strong faith that there is no God. Just not going to happen, and if they're happy, why try?!

 

For me, it isn't about proving anything doesn't exist. No one has yet prove to me that god does for example, and that's what I rely on. There's no need to dis-prove something until it's proven, or there's strong evidence to suggest it's proven. People believe in horoscopes, but until someone provides me with evidence to suggest they're actually a "genuine" way of seeing the future or whatever, I won't bother myself trying to investigate whether they are.

 

If someone said they had proof that there was an 8 armed man in the centre of the earth ruling everything, I'd look at the same principle - prove it to me. Until it's proven, I wont believe it. I don't mind if others do though. Their choice.

 

Problem is, the 'faithful' won't extend you the same courtesy. Xtians get a seat in the House of Lords, and a say in the running of the country and the formulation of laws that directly affect your life, purely because of their supposed belief in a bronze age superstition. Despite that, we're actually quite lucky in this country; many Anglican clerics are virtually indistinguishable from atheists or agnostics in their beliefs.

 

A core tenet of much of Islam is the establishment of a world-wide Islamic Khaliphate ruled under Sharia. In America, religious people are pushing through legislation to change the definition of science as taught in schools in order to allow creationism into the classroom. (Google the Wedge Strategy; it's a plan by American creationists to subvert science teaching in order to undermine acceptance of evolution). In Rome, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Africa, America, etc. state sanctioned statements, or acts, of gross stupidity rooted in religious beliefs are regular things.

 

Try the Hitchens Challenge:

 

"Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer.

 

Now name me an evil action or statement made by a believer because of their faith"

 

You'll scratch you head over the first one, and maybe you'll come up with something eventually, or maybe not. I've never yet heard a convincing answer.

As soon as you read the second one an example will spring to mind, followed by a dozen more within seconds.

Edited April 26, 2009 by EbonyBranch