Men going topless in Public

[Ms Macbeth 75]

Lots of arguments here about what is right or wrong in law. I just see it as a matter of appropriate behaviour. Nudity (or near nudity) is fine on the beach, at the pool, in one's own private space. IMO its not fine in the middle of a shopping centre, or in the bank.

 

I put semi nudity in the wrong environment down to a simple lack of taste or consideration for anyone else. We have a neighbour, who recently must have put in some sort of raised decking in his garden. The wall gives reasonable cover for anyone standing at ground level, but now he looms shirtless over the wall as I'm at the kitchen sink. Its certainly spoiled my view - perhaps I should pray for rain.

[onewheeldave 22]

Disorder is just a more PC way of saying illness AFAICS.

 

Well aspergers isn't an illness.

 

if illness=disorder, then aspergers isn't a disorder.

 

if aspergers is a disorder, then ~(illness=disorder) [where the tild means 'is not the case that']

 

sorry to be so logical, but us aspies are like that

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 08:50 ----------

 

Lots of arguments here about what is right or wrong in law. I just see it as a matter of appropriate behaviour. Nudity (or near nudity) is fine on the beach, at the pool, in one's own private space. IMO its not fine in the middle of a shopping centre, or in the bank.

 

I put semi nudity in the wrong environment down to a simple lack of taste or consideration for anyone else. We have a neighbour, who recently must have put in some sort of raised decking in his garden. The wall gives reasonable cover for anyone standing at ground level, but now he looms shirtless over the wall as I'm at the kitchen sink. Its certainly spoiled my view - perhaps I should pray for rain.

 

Perhaps you should deal with your own irrational body issues instead of trying to put it on your neighbour dude!

 

It's amazing how you people habitually try and transfer your own issues onto others- unless you address them, you'll always have them.

 

Your neighbours doing nothing wrong- he's taken his top up in the sun in his own garden.

 

If it was the 17th century you'd have been right at the front of the crowd watching the witches burn, wouldn't you

Edited July 17, 2014 by onewheeldave

[Clown Shoes 10]

Its just trampy.

 

I used to work on a luxury cruise ship and they used to walk around inside the ship with no top on. I used to tell them to put it back on. Its not skeggy

[onewheeldave 22]

Its just trampy.

 

I used to work on a luxury cruise ship and they used to walk around inside the ship with no top on. I used to tell them to put it back on. Its not skeggy

 

Oh dear! You poor people, the suffering you must have to endure

 

Listen- as previously mentioned I am aspergic, which basically means I possess the ability to to engage in rational thought, which in turn, means I don't suffer from the bizarre prejudice orientated mind set of you 'normals'.

 

Previously, I've been focusing on trying to get you all to address your irrational prejudices, but I now realise that's futile- too much, too soon

 

So, here's a couple of suggestions that don't involve you delving into/attempting to change/open your minds, but, instead, require only the ability to control your own bodies- you can manage that presumably?

 

OK- let's imagine there's a topless man in your visual field: clearly, he's not stressing you/causing upset- he's doing nothing wrong, simply catching some sun- it's your own irrational prejudices causing the stress, but, hey ho, we've already established that you're unable to control your own minds/emotions.

 

So, here's the suggestion- did you realise that you can turn your head, or close your eyes? basically, to cut to the chase, you don't have to look: you can instead, look somewhere else.

 

Hopefully, you'll then get distracted by something else (and probalby end up moaning about that instead)- it works for my cat, and, I believe, most dogs.

 

Give it a try, and, good luck

[Jonny5 10]

I'm surprised that it took 47 years to diagnose you as aspergic Dave. I clocked it within two of your posts on this thread.

[janie48 98]

I'm aspergic Janie- 'normals' frequently perceive aspergics as taking things 'too seriously'.

 

The truth is, I've given damned good reasons why I go topless, asked people who object to address them, and had not one single rational objection to them, or even an attempt to address them.

 

That's on a 16 page thread full of insinuation and insult saying that men who go topless anywhere but a beach are undignified, rude, uncaring of the feelings of others, dirty, sweaty, fat, thin and a whole host of other non-rational prejudice based insults.

 

NOT ONE ATTEMPT to address the perfectly valid justifications I put forward for taking off my shirt.

 

Does that give you some indication of how frustrating it is trying to communicate with you people?

 

No wonder human history is littered with slavery, racism, witch hunts and slaughter of those whose only crime is to be different.

 

Do you not realise that irrational prejudice on a small scale (i.e. a man not wearing his shirt on a sunny day) can only facilitate the irrational polarisation that leads to the big prejudices?

I don't know enough about Aspergers to comment about it, other then to say that your skill at communication on the forum doesn't ever appear to place you at a disadvantage.

 

Regarding the frustration you feel, does there have to be a valid reason for people objecting to someone walking around topless in some public areas?

 

Its because its a forum thread topic I commented on it, I don't make an issue of it to the extent that I feel it necessary to express some show of disapproval when I see a man walking around topless in a shopping area.

In fact come to think of it, I don't think I've noticed anyone doing so this Summer, perhaps that's because I pay more attention to the lovely Summery clothes I've seen so many people wearing, because one thing I particularly find appealing about our culture is the individuality each of us expresses in the type of clothing we choose to wear.

[Cyclone 10]

Lots of arguments here about what is right or wrong in law. I just see it as a matter of appropriate behaviour.

So this is a question about how appropriate is defined.

Nudity (or near nudity) is fine on the beach, at the pool, in one's own private space. IMO its not fine in the middle of a shopping centre, or in the bank.

How is that opinion formed though?

 

I put semi nudity in the wrong environment down to a simple lack of taste or consideration for anyone else.

How is it inconsiderate to see a chest rather than a shirt?

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 11:25 ----------

 

Well aspergers isn't an illness.

 

if illness=disorder, then aspergers isn't a disorder.

 

if aspergers is a disorder, then ~(illness=disorder) [where the tild means 'is not the case that']

 

sorry to be so logical, but us aspies are like that

Your logic rests on a circular argument.

If the axioms are changed to;

Aspergers is a disorder

Disorders can be diseases

 

Then aspergers can be a disease (and in this case I think disorder == disease).

 

Basically, disorder and disease are just labels we give to things, formal logic isn't going to prove that something is or is not a disease.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 11:27 ----------

 

Oh dear! You poor people, the suffering you must have to endure

 

Listen- as previously mentioned I am aspergic, which basically means I possess the ability to to engage in rational thought, which in turn, means I don't suffer from the bizarre prejudice orientated mind set of you 'normals'.

You also possess a remarkable ability to stereotype and thus offend.

 

Previously, I've been focusing on trying to get you all to address your irrational prejudices, but I now realise that's futile- too much, too soon

Clearly not everyone disagrees with you.

 

So, here's a couple of suggestions that don't involve you delving into/attempting to change/open your minds, but, instead, require only the ability to control your own bodies- you can manage that presumably?

 

OK- let's imagine there's a topless man in your visual field: clearly, he's not stressing you/causing upset- he's doing nothing wrong, simply catching some sun- it's your own irrational prejudices causing the stress, but, hey ho, we've already established that you're unable to control your own minds/emotions.

 

So, here's the suggestion- did you realise that you can turn your head, or close your eyes? basically, to cut to the chase, you don't have to look: you can instead, look somewhere else.

 

Hopefully, you'll then get distracted by something else (and probalby end up moaning about that instead)- it works for my cat, and, I believe, most dogs.

 

Give it a try, and, good luck

Facetious. That's not actually going to help get your point of view across.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 11:31 ----------

 

Regarding the frustration you feel, does there have to be a valid reason for people objecting to someone walking around topless in some public areas?

 

Shouldn't any objection be supported by a valid reason? Otherwise it's just a prejudice.

[Clown Shoes 10]

Its a 60 Euro fine if you walk around with no top on in Barcelona.

 

So we cant be the only country that thinks its pikey.

[Cyclone 10]

Why is it "pikey" though (if you insist on using racial epithets to describe it)?

[Clown Shoes 10]

Why is it "pikey" though (if you insist on using racial epithets to describe it)?

 

Would people go to church with no top on? Would they sit in a restaurant with no top on? Would they go to work with no top on?

 

The answer is no.

 

How would you feel if someone got on a bus with no top on? and then sat next to you?

 

Why is a supermarket ok then?

[Cyclone 10]

It was "In Barcelona" you described as "pikey", not "in the supermarket".

 

Why is not wearing a shop a problem to anyone else anywhere? What's likely to happen on the bus? If someone is sitting next to you then any physical contact is likely to be arm to arm, taking off a shirt doesn't mean your arms disappear.

 

(The argument I can think of regarding the bus would be hygiene related, despite OWDs protestation that he doesn't sweat, we all sweat, at least a small amount, and more when the weather is like this. A shirt helps to keep the sweat off the bus seat back.)

[onewheeldave 22]

:

i'm surprised that it took 47 years to diagnose you as aspergic dave. I clocked it within two of your posts on this thread.

 

:):)

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:30 ----------

 

I don't know enough about Aspergers to comment about it, other then to say that your skill at communication on the forum doesn't ever appear to place you at a disadvantage.

 

Yeah- I realised long ago that while I had major communication issues in live scenarios face to face, that online I could spend time composing replies and using my strengths, which are based on rationality. A few people have said I can express myself far better online than in real life

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:34 ----------

 

Regarding the frustration you feel, does there have to be a valid reason for people objecting to someone walking around topless in some public areas?

 

In the context of a discussion/debate, then, yes, I do think people do need to back up their opinions with valid reasons.

 

Especially in this one where a lot of offensive and downright prejudicial opinions have been posted.

 

It's discussions like this which can lead to toplessness being banned in public.

 

To most here, that probably doesn't sound that bad but, it's not a long jump from banning toplessness with no valid reason, to maybe, as in some places, banning women from exposing their shoulders, or legs, or faces.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:36 ----------

 

I

In fact come to think of it, I don't think I've noticed anyone doing so this Summer, perhaps that's because I pay more attention to the lovely Summery clothes I've seen so many people wearing, because one thing I particularly find appealing about our culture is the individuality each of us expresses in the type of clothing we choose to wear.

I've noticed the lack of it this year too.

 

Still, given the baseless insults and hostility directed towards topless men here, I'm not that surprised.

 

The other reason is likely that, given the steady decline in public health and rise in obesity etc, many men are probably too ashamed of their own bodies to take their shirts off.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:37 ----------

 

....perhaps that's because I pay more attention to the lovely Summery clothes I've seen so many people wearing, because one thing I particularly find appealing about our culture is the individuality each of us expresses in the type of clothing we choose to wear.

 

plus of course, the individuality of those of us who choose to go topless?

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:41 ----------

 

Your logic rests on a circular argument.

If the axioms are changed to;

Aspergers is a disorder

Disorders can be diseases

 

Then aspergers can be a disease (and in this case I think disorder == disease).

 

Basically, disorder and disease are just labels we give to things, formal logic isn't going to prove that something is or is not a disease.

 

Sorry no- my assertion that aspergers isn't a disease, wasn't an axiom, it was a fact. The opposite i.e. aspergers is a disease (which was the claim I was responding to) could be an axiom, if by axiom we mean 'assumption'. But if axiom means something that is self evidently true, then it can't, as it's false.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:43 ----------

 

 

 

Facetious. That's not actually going to help get your point of view across.

I know dude- I've pretty much given up on getting my point of view across to the current crop of posters- that would require them to have the will to engage in some rational discourse.

 

---------- Post added 17-07-2014 at 17:45 ----------

 

Its a 60 Euro fine if you walk around with no top on in Barcelona.

 

So we cant be the only country that thinks its pikey.

 

Yeah. In some places it's execution if you're a women and walk about without a tent covering everything but your eyes.