Should employers be stopped from making redundancies when making profits

[Wildcat 10]

And all of us have a right to work, so if we can't rely on employers to provide this then who should we rely on?

 

In extreme circumstances one option was discussed on this thread:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471176

[tonkatoy 10]

Feel free to offer an opinion of your own!

 

Ok here's a challenge for you. Why doesn't one of you loony lefties set up a business and implement all these half baked ideas that you Scargill and Derek Robinson have pushed for years?

Or has it been done and the company gone bancrupt?

[Wildcat 10]

Ok here's a challenge for you. Why doesn't one of you loony lefties set up a business and implement all these half baked ideas that you Scargill and Derek Robinson have pushed for years?

Or has it been done and the company gone bancrupt?

 

John Lewis? building societies? all the other successful mutuals?

[Titanic99 10]

Ok here's a challenge for you. Why doesn't one of you loony lefties set up a business and implement all these half baked ideas that you Scargill and Derek Robinson have pushed for years?

Or has it been done and the company gone bancrupt?

 

What has that got to do with this thread?

 

As put many times before, do you believe that employers should be able to close profitable businesses down in this country and re-locate in India.

 

I'm not interested in the legislative viewpoint, I'm interested in the moral aspect and the implication for ordinary people in this country when this happens.

 

And how that can be construed as left-wing is beyond me.

[Cyclone 10]

And all of us have a right to work, so if we can't rely on employers to provide this then who should we rely on?

 

 

The universe doesn't come with a list of rights for humans, so where does the right to work come from? It's certainly not a part of any constitution I've ever heard of, and how could it be?

[Cyclone 10]

What has that got to do with this thread?

 

As put many times before, do you believe that employers should be able to close profitable businesses down in this country and re-locate in India.

 

I'm not interested in the legislative viewpoint, I'm interested in the moral aspect and the implication for ordinary people in this country when this happens.

 

And how that can be construed as left-wing is beyond me.

 

Why do you seek to deny employment to people in India? Do they not have a right to work?

 

Bet that ones difficult to answer, since you were only applying the 'right to work' in a protectionist manner to the UK.

[Titanic99 10]

 

The universe doesn't come with a list of rights for humans, so where does the right to work come from? It's certainly not a part of any constitution I've ever heard of, and how could it be?

 

Appropriate answer to this posted earlier in the thread.

 

So if we have no right to work, how are we supposed to make enough income to live?

[Titanic99 10]

Why do you seek to deny employment to people in India? Do they not have a right to work?

 

Bet that ones difficult to answer, since you were only applying the 'right to work' in a protectionist manner to the UK.

 

I don't, I'm quite happy to engage in a full debate to consider the right to work for individuals throughout the world.

 

The India issue came up because you indicated you didn't believe employers made people redundant when they didn't need to do this.

 

India is a perfectly example of why this argument is flawed, others will exist in this country but this is the one most likely to generate understanding of the issue.

[tonkatoy 10]

John Lewis? building societies? all the other successful mutuals?

 

Hmmm! Good choice.

 

http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/1064278_cheshire_building_society_jobs_axed

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/business/Dunfermline-culls---.4479898.jp

http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/232960/220/Newcastle_Building_Society_announces_redundancies_and_winding_down_of_commercial_lending.htm

http://www.insidemoneytalk.com/news/new/new122.html

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=548861

http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/sectors/fashionclothing/article/893506/John-Lewis-makes-marketing-director-Gill-Barr-redundant/

[Cyclone 10]

I don't, I'm quite happy to engage in a full debate to consider the right to work for individuals throughout the world.

 

The India issue came up because you indicated you didn't believe employers made people redundant when they didn't need to do this.

I indicated that it was illegal to make a person redundant, the job becomes redundant. Moving operations to India is a valid reason for the job no longer existing, and overall no one looses the right to work, it's just moved from one country to the other.

 

India is a perfectly example of why this argument is flawed, others will exist in this country but this is the one most likely to generate understanding of the issue.

 

It clouds the issue.

Jobs are not made redundant unless a firm has a good reason.

 

Edit - how do you reconcile your apparent need for legislation to stop jobs being moved to India with the universal right for everyone, including Indians to employment.

[Cyclone 10]

So everyone has the capacity and opportunity to set themselves up in business then.

 

I suppose it's our fault that people lack the capacity as well?

[Titanic99 10]

I indicated that it was illegal to make a person redundant, the job becomes redundant. Moving operations to India is a valid reason for the job no longer existing, and overall no one looses the right to work, it's just moved from one country to the other.

 

It clouds the issue.

Jobs are not made redundant unless a firm has a good reason.

 

Edit - how do you reconcile your apparent need for legislation to stop jobs being moved to India with the universal right for everyone, including Indians to employment.

 

The thread was started with the intention of discussing whether legislation should exist to stop firms from making people redundant when making healthy profits. This can be either in the form of moving operations elsewhere or from making people redundant here when there appears to be no reason for it.

 

It has evolved to include replacing people with someone different, on a lower wage, I am aware that this constitutes unfair dismissal but this is notoriously difficult to prove.

 

The debate can be expanded further to discuss the right to work for people of all nations, I'd certainly welcome some sort of bill of rights that legislates for this and would certainly support any party advocating it.

 

But back on thread, are you comfortable with your assertion that no employers are making people redundant uneccesarily and that moving businesses to other countries is a perfectly reasonable thing to do without consideration for the workforce left behind.