Lapatnicks and Patnicks in Sheffield from 1890

[retep 68]

1 minute ago, HisOnlyStar said:

I've seen those forms at my dad's. They said Patnick. That Jewish database says Patnick also. There was no La. 

Oath of Allegiance, signed as Lapatnick , 5 March 1907.

[HisOnlyStar 0]

7 minutes ago, retep said:

Oath of Allegiance, signed as Lapatnick , 5 March 1907.

Ok. I'm asking someone if they can show me again. It's years since I saw. My dad had original documents at one time.  I was sure I recall it said Patnick. 🙂 'La' is not very Russian sounding at all. I have always known them to be the Patnicks. My grandma was Hetty.

Edited January 10, 2021 by HisOnlyStar

[retep 68]

6 minutes ago, HisOnlyStar said:

Ok. I'm asking someone if they can show me again. It's years since I saw. My dad had original documents at one time.  I was sure I recall it said Patnick. 🙂 'La' is not very Russian sounding at all. I have always known them to be the Patnicks. My grandma was Hetty.

It is handwritten,  also if you put  *patnick into Findmypast it comes up as Lapatnick and Dora in her school record is down as Lapatnick

[HisOnlyStar 0]

1 hour ago, retep said:

It is handwritten,  also if you put  *patnick into Findmypast it comes up as Lapatnick and Dora in her school record is down as Lapatnick

Thank you. I'm not signing up for that site though they take money for nothing. Last time had to get bank to get my subscription back. It's waste of money. I also thought those sites anyone can add anything into them? So someone who thought the name was Lapatnick could have entered it. I still do not believe the name was ever Lapatnick. My dad says 'Who is Dora?" He says it's not familiar, it ever so slightly rings a bell but he's not familiar with anyone called Dora.

 

 

 

 

On 11/11/2019 at 20:13, FIRETHORN1 said:

I recall a Patnick's second-hand clothing stall in the old Rag Market when I was a little kid in the '60's. I also recall that one of the Patnick men was involved in Sheffield politics and was  a city councillor in my youth - not sure who, but I think it was Irvine Patnick. I also recall that the Patnick family were very well respected in Sheffield in the '60's and 70's. I'm not saying that everyone liked and admired them, but I think a hell of a lot of Sheff people respected the Patnick  family as people who had overcome a lot of prejudice and hardship and had done really well for themselves.

They didn't face prejudice and they arrived in this country wealthier than most. Not all refugees are poor! 

 

 

Are you an ancestor of them too? 

The truth is no one really knows where they came from or why it took them years to reach the UK.  (Apparently they left Russia in 1887) They didn't speak any English and they had money, much more than average. The family keeps secrets, hides any info and won't tell the truth. A lot of truth has been lost because family members who knew have passed away. There is zero info on them prior to their arrival in the UK. The British Jewry database (which I believe over UK census and directory's or ancestry sites) says they came from Russia and were called Patnicks. 

The Lapps came from Lithuania supposedly, but some say the originated in the Belarus region. There was no Lapatnick all my life until I heard my sister mentioning this rumour and found this thread. 

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/categories/40/?name=_Lapatnick&name_x=_1

 

This is not the Sheffield Patnick family. They never lived in Pennsylvania. Wrong records. 

This explains the confusion I think. 

Different people. Different names. Some same first names but not same family.

 

The only family member to go to USA was Gary. Hetty Patnicks grandson. He went as an adult in the 1970s I think. 

 

 

 

 

 

On 18/03/2009 at 13:01, hillsbro said:

That's what I was wondering. The 1911 census includes eight Lapatnicks living in Sheffield, but of those who were old enough to have been included in the 1901 census, none correlates exactly with any of the four Lapatnicks recorded then, or any of the four "Patricks" recorded in 1901. The 1911 Lapatnicks are, with their ages:

Hyman M., 41, Sarah, 41, Aaron, 15, Ada, 13, Dora, 10, Leah, 8, Minnie, 5, Abraham, 2

Because it's not the same family. I'm serious. I am an ancestor of the Sheffield Patnick family and they are not the same people as these Lapatnicks, who were in Pennsylvania for a start in USA.  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/categories/40/?name=_Lapatnick&name_x=_1

They share a few first names but that's all. They are not the same people. 

The UK census said Patrick, but it was wrong, it was Patnick. My dad's sister spoke of that in the past and as she was the oldest daughter of Hetty Patnick she knew the most about the family history. 

[retep 68]

Dora was Hyman's daughter, Hyman Michael is down as born in Janisik in the county of Kowner Guberne and is the son of Nathan and Ada Lapatnick both subjects of Russia.

Hymans family 1907

Aron-11

Ada-9

Dora-7

Lea-5

Mina-1

it does say "and" so presume there was another

[hillsbro 32]

2 hours ago, HisOnlyStar said:

... Because it's not the same family. I'm serious. I am an ancestor of the Sheffield Patnick family and they are not the same people ...

I think you mean you are a descendant. Looking again at the 1911 census, there is another Lapatnick family - see copy below of the census page - comprising Nathan Lapatnick, his wife and son. These are presumably ancestors of the OP, "lennylap". But they were evidently related to Hyman M. Lapatnick, as the handwriting matches that on the form headed by Hyman, and this form is signed by Aaron Lapatnick, Hyman’s son. Perhaps he could write English better than the three people on the form. Curious!

 

[HisOnlyStar 0]

1 hour ago, retep said:

Dora was Hyman's daughter, Hyman Michael is down as born in Janisik in the county of Kowner Guberne and is the son of Nathan and Ada Lapatnick both subjects of Russia.

Hymans family 1907

Aron-11

Ada-9

Dora-7

Lea-5

Mina-1

it does say "and" so presume there was another

It's not the Sheffield UK Patnicks. Those records are from Pennsylvania USA. 

 

My sister is sending me our family naturalisation documents. I'm going to know for sure in a few hours 

 

41 minutes ago, hillsbro said:

I think you mean you are a descendant. Looking again at the 1911 census, there is another Lapatnick family - see copy below of the census page - comprising Nathan Lapatnick, his wife and son. These are presumably ancestors of the OP, "lennylap". But they were evidently related to Hyman M. Lapatnick, as the handwriting matches that on the form headed by Hyman, and this form is signed by Aaron Lapatnick, Hyman’s son. Perhaps he could write English better than the three people on the form. Curious!

 

 

Yes Descendant! I mean the Patnicks are my Ancestors. Hetty Patnick was my paternal grandmother. She was married to David Lapp and they lived halfway up Gleadless Road. 

Thank you for posting that. 

I've been talking to family all day and that Ancestry link that has Lapatnicks makes no sense because it says Pennsylvania. 

They never went there. 

I am sure I know who the OP is and he wasn't born in 1934 or whatever his profile says. He went to America I believe in the 70s possibly early 80s even, as an adult. All his siblings, parents, cousins ect stayed in Sheffield.

 

I do know that they did not speak English. The parents. They never learnt it either. Only the children born or raised here could speak English. So that would be why the sin signed I presume.

 

http://www.witness.group.shef.ac.uk/interview-edward-patnick/

 

Just been told to listen to this 

[hillsbro 32]

17 hours ago, HisOnlyStar said:

 ...  Hetty Patnick was my paternal grandmother. She was married to David Lapp and they lived halfway up Gleadless Road...

In case it is of interest, here is the Lapps' 1911 census page. The "1939 Register" finds David and Hetty Lapp at 751 Gleadless Road as you wrote. David, born 14 March 1910,  is described as a joiner, and Hetty, born 13 December 1911. They had evidently married four years earlier.

 

Here is an article from the 'Sheffield Daily Independent' of 23 December 1923 about Nathan Lapatnick who was then (apparently) aged 111. The GRO deaths index records his death the following year aged 110 (although in 1911 he was apparently 81 🙂).

 

If I had to bathe my head in vinegar every day I don't think I'd want to live to a ripe old age...

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by hillsbro

[HisOnlyStar 0]

12 hours ago, hillsbro said:

In case it is of interest, here is the Lapps' 1911 census page. The "1939 Register" finds David and Hetty Lapp at 751 Gleadless Road as you wrote. David, born 14 March 1910,  is described as a joiner, and Hetty, born 13 December 1911. They had evidently married four years earlier.

 

Here is an article from the 'Sheffield Daily Independent' of 23 December 1923 about Natahan Lapatnick who was then (apparently) aged 111. The GRO deaths index records his death the following year aged 110 (although in 1911 he was apparently 81 🙂).

 

If I had to bathe my head in vinegar every day I don't think I'd want to live to a ripe old age...

 

Haha wow. Bathed his head in vinegar!!! Thank you

[hillsbro 32]

18 hours ago, retep said:

Dora was Hyman's daughter, Hyman Michael is down as born in Janisik in the county of Kowner Guberne and is the son of Nathan and Ada Lapatnick both subjects of Russia.

Hymans family 1907

Aron-11

Ada-9

Dora-7

Lea-5

Mina-1

it does say "and" so presume there was another

The "and..." child would be Abraham Lapatnick, born in Sheffield in 1909. Here is the family's page from the 1911 census.

[sadbrewer 20]

20 hours ago, hillsbro said:

I think you mean you are a descendant. Looking again at the 1911 census, there is another Lapatnick family - see copy below of the census page - comprising Nathan Lapatnick, his wife and son. These are presumably ancestors of the OP, "lennylap". But they were evidently related to Hyman M. Lapatnick, as the handwriting matches that on the form headed by Hyman, and this form is signed by Aaron Lapatnick, Hyman’s son. Perhaps he could write English better than the three people on the form. Curious!

 

 

Aaron Lapatnick appears to have been a good student, he was awarded a grant for school tuition at The Sheffield Central School in September 1908, his previous school was the Bow St, Mixed School.

Edited January 11, 2021 by sadbrewer

[hillsbro 32]

That’s very interesting, sadbrewer. Many older Sheffield people will remember Aaron Michael Patnick (father of Irvine, Philip and Edward) who had the junk shop on Langsett Road. Here is his family’s page from the 1911 census. I remember Irvine saying that the family surname was originally Lapatnick, and they were presumably related to the other Lapatnicks. However - just to confuse matters further regarding the spelling of the surname - Aaron Michael Patnick was born on 21 October 1897, and in the G.R.O. birth record (extract inset) his surname is given as LAPATNIC! The “La-“ prefix was evidently abandoned soon afterwards, because when Harry and Esther’s next child, Israel, was born in 1899 his surname was registered as Patnick.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by hillsbro