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The interminable God does/doesn't exist megathread - part 2

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And while there was no science, the next best thing and precursor to science, 'natural philosophy' was being supressed by various Christian cults including the catholic one.

 

"The approximate last known head of the Department of Mathematics and Philosophy, Musaeum of Alexandria, part of the Library of Alexandria, was female mathematician Hypatia of Alexandria ( circa born 350 - 370 A.D., murdered 415 A.D. by Christian Copts ), an outstandingly notable Hellene philosopher, mathematician and astronomer whose murder by fanatically enraged Christian Coptic mobs was inspired by the leading Christian Patriarch, Pope of Alexandria later canonized Saint Cyril of Alexandria no less for expunging this brilliant non - mystical, non - Christian thinker and ecumenical teacher of Jews, Christians, foreigners and other pagans inhabiting cosmopolitan Alexandria.

 

Thus during the later time of Catholicism under Pope Urban III ( Milanese born as Uberto Crivelli circa 1120 - died 1187 ) and the infamous unjust house imprisonment of Galileo Galilei beginning in 1633 by Urban's personal authority given by the "Congregation of the Holy Office of the Inquisition" ( the Roman Inquisition established earlier in 1542 by Pope Paul III ), it therefore seems that in comparison to Galileo Galilei Hypatia was needlessly badly treated by Catholic authority perhaps because of her famous feminine beauty and widely acknowledged philosophical and mathematical brilliance.

 

 

The ultimate demise of the Library of Alexandria and its Hellene scholarship is usually correlated with the Christian murder of Hypatia, stripped naked in the streets of Alexandria with her flesh scourged from her body by Christian hands and fingers while being dragged to her final death by burning alive. The final loss of Hypatia to scholarship and advancement of knowledge marked the beginning of the end of humanist Greek science and mathematics until it was resurrected in Europe during the Renaissance ( roughly 14th to 17th centuries), the Age of Reason ( late 17th century ), and the Age of Enlightenment ( encompasses the Age of Reason and extends into the 18th century), all of which the Catholic Church continued to strenuously oppose."

 

Source here http://www.relativitycalculator.com/conflict_science_religion.shtml

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I'm not saying it was, i'm merely pointing out that your example of Saint Augustine does not add anything. He wasn't a scientist, he didn't do science, so you can't use him as a 'hey, look, Catholic people don't supress science' example.

 

So was Saint Augustine persecuted, as the OP suggests happened to proponents of evolutionary theory?

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And while there was no science, the next best thing and precursor to science, 'natural philosophy' was being supressed by various Christian cults including the catholic one.

 

"The approximate last known head of the Department of Mathematics and Philosophy, Musaeum of Alexandria, part of the Library of Alexandria, was female mathematician Hypatia of Alexandria ( circa born 350 - 370 A.D., murdered 415 A.D. by Christian Copts ), an outstandingly notable Hellene philosopher, mathematician and astronomer whose murder by fanatically enraged Christian Coptic mobs was inspired by the leading Christian Patriarch, Pope of Alexandria later canonized Saint Cyril of Alexandria no less for expunging this brilliant non - mystical, non - Christian thinker and ecumenical teacher of Jews, Christians, foreigners and other pagans inhabiting cosmopolitan Alexandria.

 

Thus during the later time of Catholicism under Pope Urban III ( Milanese born as Uberto Crivelli circa 1120 - died 1187 ) and the infamous unjust house imprisonment of Galileo Galilei beginning in 1633 by Urban's personal authority given by the "Congregation of the Holy Office of the Inquisition" ( the Roman Inquisition established earlier in 1542 by Pope Paul III ), it therefore seems that in comparison to Galileo Galilei Hypatia was needlessly badly treated by Catholic authority perhaps because of her famous feminine beauty and widely acknowledged philosophical and mathematical brilliance.

 

 

The ultimate demise of the Library of Alexandria and its Hellene scholarship is usually correlated with the Christian murder of Hypatia, stripped naked in the streets of Alexandria with her flesh scourged from her body by Christian hands and fingers while being dragged to her final death by burning alive. The final loss of Hypatia to scholarship and advancement of knowledge marked the beginning of the end of humanist Greek science and mathematics until it was resurrected in Europe during the Renaissance ( roughly 14th to 17th centuries), the Age of Reason ( late 17th century ), and the Age of Enlightenment ( encompasses the Age of Reason and extends into the 18th century), all of which the Catholic Church continued to strenuously oppose."

 

Source here http://www.relativitycalculator.com/conflict_science_religion.shtml

 

All of which is true, but to postulate this argument as a defence that the Vatican refuted an argument centuries before it meaningfully existed is going a bit far.

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All of which is true, but to postulate this argument as a defence that the Vatican refuted an argument centuries before it meaningfully existed is going a bit far.

 

I'm not postulating anything of the sort, i didn't mention evolution at all.

 

i'm just providing some information on Catholic suppression of human knowledge, progression, and understanding, which, unlike it's supression of evolution specifically, has gone on for centuries.

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So was Saint Augustine persecuted, as the OP suggests happened to proponents of evolutionary theory?

 

No he was not a proponent of evolutionary theory

 

As has been pointed out evolutionary theory did not exist yet.

 

He may have had some ideas but he was a very very long way from the theory of evolution.

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Apologies, I see that you were not actually attempting to justify devil6's claim of a centuries old refutation of evolution - merely pointing out the fact that they are responsible for the suppression of thought elsewhere, which I have no argument with.

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No he was not a proponent of evolutionary theory

 

As has been pointed out evolutionary theory did not exist yet.

 

He may have had some ideas but he was a very very long way from the theory of evolution.

 

The intention of my original point about Augustine was to indicate that he was not persecuted because of his views on evolution. I was not attempting to imply the Catholic church had not suppressed thought elsewhere (as for instance it did with heliocentrism). Nor was I offering some justification for that train of Catholic thought which attempts to explain its current acceptance of evolution by pointing back to Augustine and claiming it got their first.

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"You've made some? They must have been very well hidden in the disjointed, rambling tirade."

----------

This coming form a man who more than likely believes something along the lines of; Jesus was born to a virgin mother, as fatherless man who was also god, he died, came back to life [as did some of his friends], then disappeared into thin air!!!!

But it's all true because a couple of fishermen said so! It sounds daft, because it is!!!! look at the evidence!

 

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Evidence of religion suppressing learning and science-Turkey have just banned Richard Dawkins website, this month of this very year. Why would they do that? if it's all false and obviously not true, why not let the information remain in the public domain?

 

The same reasons why lot's of other people throughout history have denied the truth. Power, money, greed and selfishness.

 

Remember-evolution is far more interesting than the story books available.

 

My original post states-are there any good points about religion? i have had lot's of people defending the various churches position on this, but as yet, not a single good point that religion installs in people, outside evolved human nature.

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"You've made some? They must have been very well hidden in the disjointed, rambling tirade."

----------

This coming form a man who more than likely believes something along the lines of; Jesus was born to a virgin mother, as fatherless man who was also god, he died, came back to life [as did some of his friends], then disappeared into thin air!!!!

But it's all true because a couple of fishermen said so! It sounds daft, because it is!!!! look at the evidence!

 

LOL! way to jump to conclusions! Typical of the fanatical mindset - if you don't agree with me you must be the "enemy"!!!

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"You have every right to believe whatever you want. So does everybody else."

 

Until recently, and i use the phrase recently in evelutionary terms, i have not had the right to my opinion, and would have more than likely been persicuted, trialed and more than likely killed for my opinion. In fact in most muslim states, i would probably still face an army of stone throwing nut jobs to this day. So please don't question my right to open a debate with my opinion on the worlds greatest and oldest debate. Thanks.

 

As far as narrow persepctives go, i find the dig rather laughable considering the alternative to my belief in something so vast and interesting as evolution, is a narrow minded bigotry ridden story book that are the religious scriptures people choose to believe, unquestioned and with no eveidence to support their cases.

 

The Vatican now accept evolution, knowingly have denied it for centuries, because the evidence is not just overwhelming, but FACT. But guess what? they think god started the big bang! it's a joke, and as weak as the people who need it.

 

I don't want everyone to view life through my narrow perspective, quite the opposite in fact. I would like everyone to give evolution a chance, we are forced into religion no matter what our beliefs. Starting at school for instance, we have to sit in assambelies and pray etc... at 5 years old i don't view that as a choice, more a rule. Why should it be so?

 

Enjoy life, because there is nothing after our bodies cease to exisit. FACT.

 

I am NOT questioning your right to open a debate, or to state your BELIEFS. :)

 

When I was 5 I was also made to take part in assemblies at school and pray.

When I was 5 I also called those with whom I "took issue," names. You know the sort of thing..."nutter"..."nut job," etc.

Then I grew up.

If you're so attached to insult as a tool of debate you lose my respect and all credibility.

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hi swami missed your post friday i hope normal service is resumed as soon as possible :thumbsup:

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