William Francis Plommer

[okismoki 10]

i work with the elderly,a lot of the people i worked with lived in that particular area around the time of the murder,most of them believed the fowler brothers were innocent,many of them knew the fowlers and jock, jock wasn,t a bloke to be messed with,thats why they went mob handed,whoever the murderer,it was cowardly going mob handed,even more cowardly to take part,all who were there on that fateful day were guilty of something,if not murder,then assault at the very least.

[Tooeg 10]

Am eagerly awaiting delivery of J P Bean's book on the Gang Wars especially if there is a chapter about my uncle in it. I just took it for granted that the Fowler brothers were guilty and never knew there was any debate about the verdict.....so am very interested to learn more. Looking for newspaper reports of the what happened to see if that can shed further light on what happened. Court transcripts would also be useful but not sure if the public (even related members) can access these. Any ideas?

 

Maryanne. if this topic goes quiet for a month or two, then give it a nudge back into the top ten, people sometimes miss topics or new people join, I imagine there must be relatives of Sam Garvin around, who might have another angle on it. Sam Garvin is part of Sheffield folklore, along with George Mooney another gang leader, whose great grand daughter has been on the forum.

Good luck

[maryanne 10]

Thanks for ideas and comments to all who posted. Will keep in contact.

Cheers,

Maryanne

[jessiet 10]

hi there i have a book about burngreave cemetary and theres the story of your relative.My grandfather was a friend of the brothers or so ive been told.This is what it says; The crime in the 1920'swas gang led,the heads of the two gangs Sam Garvin and George Mooney,had originally operated the pitch and toss rings at sky edge together,but like most criminals,they fell out and became bitter enemies. Princess street meets attercliffe rd at Norfolk Bridge close to the city centre, Housing consisted of back to back houses and courts, with an ample supply of public houses,many of them contributing to the gangland funds for the promise of safety. On Sunday evenin, April 26th 1925 a stranger to the area ,Harold Liversage, had ventured in to the windsor hotel on princess street, where Wilfred Fowler and friends happened to be having a drink. On leaving Fowler followed him in to the street and smashed him in the face. Blooded, he moved away up the street and came across William (jock) Francis Plommer, outside his home at number 42 asking him for help. Jock Plommer was a formidable character, he had served through the great war as a sergeant and practised amateur boxing, then he was working as a labourer at Bessemer & co.He agreed to accompany liversage back to the windsor,but only to ensure that there could be a fair fight, one that gave Lawrence the chance to gain revenge.After the affray as Fowler got up from the ground he turned to Plommer and told him he would return to get him! The following night,up to 12 members of the park brigade were reported in the pubs around the wicker and later they paraded up and down Princess Street as a crowd gathered sensing the trouble.Jock plommer left his house and offered to fight them all individually, alas he was jumped on and severely beaten,returning to his house bleeding heavily,he collapsed and within a short time died. Nine of the gang were arrested,however only two were to stand trial at Leeds for the murder. Wilfred (23) and Lawrance (25) Fowler, they were found guilty and executed at armley jail,the younger brother on sept3rd 1925,and his brother the following morning. At the funeral of 'jock' Plommer his son wore his medal,over 8,000 sightseers were present in the cemetary. I found my greatgrandads grave in the same cemetary i can get in touch with them and they take photos of graves if you want me too. I hope this was helpful to you.

[Tooeg 10]

So Maryanne

You've got a cousin to find as well, that should keep you busy. He was a long way from Scotland, perhaps met his wife during the war, Sheffield Girl, so son born after war. That would still put your cousin in his late 80s. So you would be looking for the next generation

There are no Plommers in Sheffield in the 1939 Kelly's in fact No. 42 Princess St. had gone by then as well.

One or two people on this Forum can check other dates for you. The people on here will probably be able to find him (or them) for you, they get their teeth into something like this, they are like Terriers (Yorkshire not Highland).

Good Luck

[maryanne 10]

Hi there,

Thanks Jessiet and Tooeg for responding to my post. Very welcome information and suggestions. Would not like to put you to any trouble Jessiet regarding the picture of the grave but if it's not too much of a hardship then it would be appreciated.

I read about Willaim Francis Plommer in a post by Fran. I believe she is a relative of mine. Fran wrote that after the murder the Plommer family moved to Glasgow and then the extended family moved to Canada. Would love to hear from you Fran if you are still contributing to the forum. Delighted with the responses I have had on the Forum. Keep the information and suggestions coming...all are most welcome.

regards, Maryanne

[sylv h 10]

hi mary my late father used to talk about the plommer murder he told us he was a friend of tom,william plommers son and was in the plommer house on princess st when the murder occurred.my father said someone came to the house to warn [jock] that gang members were on the street wanting him to come out onto the street jock told the boys to stay in the house.curiosity took over and the boys went outside and saw what happened.my father said jock was attacked by a number of men,he offered to fight them individually but they refused.my father said he saw pokers used as well as fists.my mum lived near burngreave cemetary and said the funeral was attended by crowds of people and was like a state funeral.its only a small amount of info but i hope it helps.

[alex3659 11]

about 30 years ago there was a play about the murder at the crucible .

[hotrock 10]

i have just found out that i am related to the fowlers, but due to stubborn relations, concealing the history surrounding this branch of my family, i have hit a dead end, i have the book etc, so any other family willing to divulge the missing info, it would be muchly appreciated. cheers all & have a happy new year

[oldmickyboy 10]

hi hotrock i am also related to the fowlers on my mothers side she is carol fowler daughter of albert who was cousen to the hanged brothers,

i to seem to have a dead end but from what i can find out is that the brothers were indeed part of the gang that attacked plommer and never denied the fact but did not do the fatel blow hence the not guilty plee.

how are you related?

[hotrock 10]

my grandads mother was annie elizabeth fowler, who was lawrence & wilfred's sister, so i think that makes me a great great nephew, but unsure,

[FM Plommer 10]

Hi there,

I am interested in the William Plommer murder. My name is Mary Anne Plommer and I live in Glasgow. I think William Plommer was my dad's brother. My dad was called James Scott PLommer and he was born in Scotstoun in 1910. His dad worked as a riveter in the shipyards. His mother died when he was 4 years old. I know my dad had another brother Alex, and three sisters Mary Anne who move to America, and Dolly and Chrissie who stayed in Glasgow. My dad also had step-brothers Tommy and Harry. I think they lived in Scotstoun. My dad died in 1974 aged 64 years. He spent much of his life in the army and was a Japanese POW for almost 4 years. I remember hearing of a family member who was murdered in Sheffield by a gang who used weapons but I'd like to find out more about it. Can anybody provide more information or even suggest a book on the subject.

Much appreciated,

Mary Anne Plommer

 

Hi Mary,

 

My Great Grandfather was William Francis Plommer. My Granda is Thomas (Tommy) Plommer his son. My Granda died in the 80's. His family had moved back up to Scotland (Glasgow) after the murder and my Granda grew up there and married my Granny (Mary King) and they had 4 sons... everyone moved to Canada in the late 60's early 70's. I'm not sure if this helps at all.

 

Take good care,

 

Frances Mary Plommer