William Francis Plommer

[maryanne 10]

Hi there,

I am interested in the William Plommer murder. My name is Mary Anne Plommer and I live in Glasgow. I think William Plommer was my dad's brother. My dad was called James Scott PLommer and he was born in Scotstoun in 1910. His dad worked as a riveter in the shipyards. His mother died when he was 4 years old. I know my dad had another brother Alex, and three sisters Mary Anne who move to America, and Dolly and Chrissie who stayed in Glasgow. My dad also had step-brothers Tommy and Harry. I think they lived in Scotstoun. My dad died in 1974 aged 64 years. He spent much of his life in the army and was a Japanese POW for almost 4 years. I remember hearing of a family member who was murdered in Sheffield by a gang who used weapons but I'd like to find out more about it. Can anybody provide more information or even suggest a book on the subject.

Much appreciated,

Mary Anne Plommer

[gremlin_mick 10]

http://www.real-crime.co.uk/Murder1/docf.htm#Fowler,

 

Look for the entries on Wilfred and Lawrence Fowler, they were the ones hanged for murdering your relative.

 

Look for a book called "The Sheffield Gang Wars", by JP Bean. http://www.amazon.com/Sheffield-Gang-Wars-J-Bean/dp/0950764507

 

Has more background on the events and circumstances that helped lead up to the murder. Great read too!

[Darkoak 10]

Hello Mary,

 

There's a book called 'Sheffield Gang Wars' (or something very similar), written by a local historian called J.P.Bean, which I'm sure has a chapter all about William Plommer. If I remember correctly, he was killed on a street close to Norfolk Railway Bridge in the Attercliffe area of Sheffield, by a couple of brothers.

 

Edit:- Mick (above) beat me to it by a couple of minutes!!!

[okismoki 10]

Hi there,

I am interested in the William Plommer murder. My name is Mary Anne Plommer and I live in Glasgow. I think William Plommer was my dad's brother. My dad was called James Scott PLommer and he was born in Scotstoun in 1910. His dad worked as a riveter in the shipyards. His mother died when he was 4 years old. I know my dad had another brother Alex, and three sisters Mary Anne who move to America, and Dolly and Chrissie who stayed in Glasgow. My dad also had step-brothers Tommy and Harry. I think they lived in Scotstoun. My dad died in 1974 aged 64 years. He spent much of his life in the army and was a Japanese POW for almost 4 years. I remember hearing of a family member who was murdered in Sheffield by a gang who used weapons but I'd like to find out more about it. Can anybody provide more information or even suggest a book on the subject.

Much appreciated,

Mary Anne Plommer

princess street is where jock met his end,although accounts of the murder weapon differ,as does the identity of the murderer,the popular story being jock was stabbed,however,an old bloke i used to visit swears he was battered to death with a kiddies scooter,this was backed up by an old neighbour of jocks,who was a child at the time it happened.

the fowler brothers were hanged for the murder,but protested their innocence till the day they were hanged,the general belief was that gangleader sam garvin was the culprit,who hopped on a passing tram,commited an offence in the wicker,establishing an alibi for his whereabouts at the time...fact or myth,i don,t know,but all the above was told to me over 20 years ago by a princess street resident and someone who lived quite close to the said road,2 different blokes who,s paths had never crossed. hope this has been some help to you.

[sandyb 10]

......if only stabbing to death was sentenced in court as then !..... nowadays this "incident" (as it would be called today) would have seen the "murderer " getting "off " with manslaughter , and sentenced to around 6-7 years ? ,but with "good behaviour" !!!!!!!! be out in about 3!!!!! (so much for progression!!) anyway - TRUTHFUL rant over - WHY has'nt the Sheffield Gang Wars been made into a film???

[maryanne 10]

Thank you okismoke and sandy b for getting back to me . Much appreciated.

Mary Anne

[maryanne 10]

Thanks gremlin mick, DarkoaK, okismoki and sandyb for getting back to me re the murder of my relative. Much appreciated. I intend to buy the book by J P Bean on the Sheffield Gang Wars.

regards,

Mary Anne

[okismoki 10]

 

no problem,its a tale i have repeated many times,i just wish old george nicholls and harry owen were alive today,i would have taped what they told me and sent it you,words from 2 children who witnessed it.

[okismoki 10]

......if only stabbing to death was sentenced in court as then !..... nowadays this "incident" (as it would be called today) would have seen the "murderer " getting "off " with manslaughter , and sentenced to around 6-7 years ? ,but with "good behaviour" !!!!!!!! be out in about 3!!!!! (so much for progression!!) anyway - TRUTHFUL rant over - WHY has'nt the Sheffield Gang Wars been made into a film???

with todays dna techniques it would be a lot harder to carry out capital punishment on an innocent person,nothing seems to deter criminals nowadays,and,as you say,the sentences are a joke,but the general public are the only ones not laughing.

i totally agree the sheffield gang wars should be made into a film,how about ken loach to make it???

[biker 10]

princess street is where jock met his end,although accounts of the murder weapon differ,as does the identity of the murderer,the popular story being jock was stabbed,however,an old bloke i used to visit swears he was battered to death with a kiddies scooter,this was backed up by an old neighbour of jocks,who was a child at the time it happened.

the fowler brothers were hanged for the murder,but protested their innocence till the day they were hanged,the general belief was that gangleader sam garvin was the culprit,who hopped on a passing tram,commited an offence in the wicker,establishing an alibi for his whereabouts at the time...fact or myth,i don,t know,but all the above was told to me over 20 years ago by a princess street resident and someone who lived quite close to the said road,2 different blokes who,s paths had never crossed. hope this has been some help to you.

My fathers family lived nearby.His older brother told me (and it was a big secret),that they were told by their father not to go out that night as trouble was brewing. He eventually told me that the killer jumped on a tram to the Wicker and attacked a passerby in front of a policeman .This gave him his alibi.The knife went into a furnace,the furnaceman being told to turn round and look away if he knew what was good for him.He did finally tell me the killers name but I cant remember it.I did write it in a diary at the time (about 1989).This was a massive secret for many years.It confirms what you said.

[okismoki 10]

My fathers family lived nearby.His older brother told me (and it was a big secret),that they were told by their father not to go out that night as trouble was brewing. He eventually told me that the killer jumped on a tram to the Wicker and attacked a passerby in front of a policeman .This gave him his alibi.The knife went into a furnace,the furnaceman being told to turn round and look away if he knew what was good for him.He did finally tell me the killers name but I cant remember it.I did write it in a diary at the time (about 1989).This was a massive secret for many years.It confirms what you said.

the supposed killer was sam garvin.

[maryanne 10]

Am eagerly awaiting delivery of J P Bean's book on the Gang Wars especially if there is a chapter about my uncle in it. I just took it for granted that the Fowler brothers were guilty and never knew there was any debate about the verdict.....so am very interested to learn more. Looking for newspaper reports of the what happened to see if that can shed further light on what happened. Court transcripts would also be useful but not sure if the public (even related members) can access these. Any ideas?