9% of UK prisoners are former soldiers say NAPO

[Columbus 10]

There's another possibility that might account for some part of that 9%.

We probably all knew a few kids at school who liked beating up other kids, and who wanted to go in the army because it meant they could fight for a living. If those types actually get in (which I don't know) and then later get out, it seems to me they always were likely to end up inside and that their propensity for violence, and propensity to join the army, are a correlation but not a cause.

I don't intend to imply that all, or even very many, armed forces personnel are of this type. Then again, most armed forces personnel do not end up in prison. Maybe a chunk of the ones that do, are of this type.

I think for some servicement what you say is true.

 

Most of the trades within the armed forces require intelligent and pre-qualified individuals - keeping ships and aircraft running need bright individuals when they have to maintain cutting-edge technology, and most of those in uniform are in support and technical trades.

 

The infantry regiments are another thing though. Not many physicists or architects choose to join up as a basic soldier, and the entry requirements are not grand. the Army has extended its rectruitment - through desperation - to include more entries from ex-Commonwealth developing nations and people with certain minor criminal convictions.

 

You do, indeed, get a few 'townie thugs' joining the Army's teeth arm formations, but usually they will either be weeded out in training or they will learn and become better people.

 

9% is very high, but with a standing service population of about 200,000 and average length of service being maybe 5 years, there are probably a couple of million ex-servicemen knocking around the UK, compared to 20 million men of 'jailable' age, so the 9% isn't that alarming a figure compared to the proportion of men out there who have completed some military service.

[Heyesey 11]

You do, indeed, get a few 'townie thugs' joining the Army's teeth arm formations, but usually they will either be weeded out in training or they will learn and become better people.

 

 

That begs another important question. How many of these "former soldiers" were in fact booted out of the Army at a fairly early stage, because of what you describe here? Are we really talking about most of them being decent 15-year-tour chaps who went off the rails after they left?

[Columbus 10]

That begs another important question. How many of these "former soldiers" were in fact booted out of the Army at a fairly early stage, because of what you describe here? Are we really talking about most of them being decent 15-year-tour chaps who went off the rails after they left?

Almost certainly not the long-serving types, whose lives will revolve around codes of conduct and service which would not allow them to consider crime - and they would not have continued to serve so long if they were so inclined.

 

However, the 'scrotes' who don't make it through training, and some of the other lively youngsters who just do their minimum 3 years ar whatever period (or less), are likely to be among those stats.

[Jessica23 10]

Just a side note - I was walking past the Forces recruitment office the other day and the only thing that caught my eye was a huge poster displaying the pay rates.

[TeaFan 10]

Misunderstanding Teafan. When an abused child goes off tracks later in life the hang em brigade are quick to condemn without looking at the whole picture, but when someone puts their life on the line for queen and country the said hang em brigade are a lot more sympathetic.

 

Ah, I did misunderstand. Please accept my apologies.

[Halibut 12]

Ah, I did misunderstand. Please accept my apologies.

Mine also.

[TeaFan 10]

Almost certainly not the long-serving types, whose lives will revolve around codes of conduct and service which would not allow them to consider crime - and they would not have continued to serve so long if they were so inclined.

 

However, the 'scrotes' who don't make it through training, and some of the other lively youngsters who just do their minimum 3 years ar whatever period (or less), are likely to be among those stats.

 

Actually, if you read the report, it says that in the 70 sample case studies, every one of them served either in the Gulf or Afghanistan. I think you risk underestimating just what psychological cost these people have paid in carrying out the duties given them.

[Heyesey 11]

Actually, if you read the report, it says that in the 70 sample case studies, every one of them served either in the Gulf or Afghanistan. I think you risk underestimating just what psychological cost these people have paid in carrying out the duties given them.

 

I'm willing to accept that psychiatric/psychological trauma can lead to this sort of problem; I just wondered how many (if any) were of the type I suggested earlier.

 

Those who have suffered traumas, certainly, should get more counselling and less "dump em on the street, then jail em when they smash up a bus shelter."

[Columbus 10]

I'm willing to accept that psychiatric/psychological trauma can lead to this sort of problem; I just wondered how many (if any) were of the type I suggested earlier.

 

Those who have suffered traumas, certainly, should get more counselling and less "dump em on the street, then jail em when they smash up a bus shelter."

Some of the types you describe find themselves in Colchester military prison, either as a precursor to their discharge or for lesser offences before continuing their service (I knew 4 people who were locked up for 27 days for peeing in a public car park, first offence and no other contributory factors).

 

Colchester is a stern regime – but its lessons stick, and the re-offence rates are tiny.

 

Jail 'em can work.

[Heyesey 11]

Some of the types you describe find themselves in Colchester military prison, either as a precursor to their discharge or for lesser offences before continuing their service (I knew 4 people who were locked up for 27 days for peeing in a public car park, first offence and no other contributory factors).

 

Colchester is a stern regime – but its lessons stick, and the re-offence rates are tiny.

 

Jail 'em can work.

 

For the scrotes, definitely. For the ones who've suffered psychological trauma from war zones, I suggest that it won't. I think you're pretty much agreeing with me, but it's easy to get confused on these linear threads.

[Columbus 10]

For the scrotes, definitely. For the ones who've suffered psychological trauma from war zones, I suggest that it won't. I think you're pretty much agreeing with me, but it's easy to get confused on these linear threads.

Yes, I am agreeing. Though I don't think we have access to enough information to draw any effective conclusions.

 

I do, however, suspect that many of those Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who are in jail may also fit into the 'young scrote' category. The majority of young soldiers on short engagements will be deployed before they leave the service - hardly anybody joining up does not - so the fact that they have been to those places merely makes them the same as the rest of their military colleagues.

 

Once people have been in for a few years and have 'lived' military ethos and discipline, they tend to have their heads screwed on right and be able to deal with life's pressures. The relatively young who serve only for a short period, including deployment, may be another thing altogether.

[upholder 10]

 

We probably all knew a few kids at school who liked beating up other kids, and who wanted to go in the army because it meant they could fight for a living.

 

Not my experience, the kids who went on to join the armed forces when I was at school new how to handle themselves and did it very effectively but in no way were they bullies and didn't pick fights for the sake of it, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Were you bullied at school?