The new Islam megathread

[Glamrock 10]

the thing is, tab (PT states with her tongue in her cheek) despite as much condemnation as you find against extremism (in Islam in this case) the minority are painted as being the majority view, and the scaremongering and spin wagon is back on its wheels all over again. and of course, the scandal rag excuses for newspapers, (and we have proof from previous inflammatory threads started about this and similar topics) certain posters on here will not let the truth get in the way of an excuse to start posts, or let the facts get in the way of a good bile-strewn rant.

 

"All Muslims are extremist, just like all Christians are like the Ku Klux Klan, you see...." (removes tongue from her cheek)

So whats the truth?..you tell me I can only comment on what I see and Im certain that all the newspapers that have printed stories about the dark side of Islam cant all be telling porkies,read the last paragraph in the article with the comments from the MCB it stated .."some of the comments are offensive"..it didnt decry them as a pack of lies,it admitted they had been made

[plekhanov 10]

There is no room for such extremism from such preachers,

What you mean aside from all the room in the rather large countries in which such extremism predominates and of course the rooms at Regent’s Park Mosque which such extremists were welcome to until the media drew attention to it and it became embarrassing?

[Ninjamagic 10]

I am told time and time again on here that atrocities attributed to Islam are the acts of the extremist section of the religion yet this piece advocating the murder of homosexuals amongst other things is purportedly an issue of moderate muslims:-

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4641082.ece

 

Women preachers are urging followers at one of Britain’s most influential mosques to kill homosexuals and view all non-Muslims as “vile”, according to a television documentary.

 

The London Central Mosque and Islamic Cultural Centre, known as the Regent’s Park Mosque, is one of the most respected centres for moderate Islam in western Europe.

 

However, an undercover investigation by the Channel 4 Dispatches programme has found extremist preachers have held study circles there and are teaching followers a hardline version of the faith followed in Saudi Arabia, known as Wahhabism.

 

Most Muslims in the UK dont follow this school but instead the 4 orthodox schools, if you want me to give more detail than i should that is Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki and Hanbali. these are the 4 orthodox schools of thought. Wahabism isnt. I hope that explains it.

 

If the documentary tommorow doesnt highlight this then it is a clear attack on the Muslim community in the UK, and we need a clear response to such tv-viewer-ratings-peddle merchants

[Plain Talker 11]

So whats the truth?..you tell me I can only comment on what I see and Im certain that all the newspapers that have printed stories about the dark side of Islam cant all be telling porkies,read the last paragraph in the article with the comments from the MCB it stated .."some of the comments are offensive"..it didnt decry them as a pack of lies,it admitted they had been made

 

the truth is that many of the scandal rags that pose as "newsapers" do print stories that

 

a) suit their own agenda,

 

and b) are often "spun" for the benefit of whipping up outrage/ scandal etc.

 

and as one famous newspaper mogul said... "it's easier to print a retraction than to tell the truth!"

 

With many newspapers, as I have said before, (particularly the "redtops") about the only thing you can trust to be accurate and truthful is the title of the newspaper and/ or the date, and even that may not be accurate.

 

The dark side that you talk about does exist, unfortunately, and certainly needs weeding out, but thank God (thank DOYC?) the moderate, decent everyday Muslim (as with the moderate, decent everyday non-muslim citizen) is in the majority.

[Glamrock 10]

Women preachers are urging followers at one of Britain’s most influential mosques to kill homosexuals and view all non-Muslims as “vile”, according to a television documentary.

 

The London Central Mosque and Islamic Cultural Centre, known as the Regent’s Park Mosque, is one of the most respected centres for moderate Islam in western Europe.

 

However, an undercover investigation by the Channel 4 Dispatches programme has found extremist preachers have held study circles there and are teaching followers a hardline version of the faith followed in Saudi Arabia, known as Wahhabism.

 

Most Muslims in the UK dont follow this school but instead the 4 orthodox schools, if you want me to give more detail than i should that is Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki and Hanbali. these are the 4 orthodox schools of thought. Wahabism isnt. I hope that explains it.

 

If the documentary tommorow doesnt highlight this then it is a clear attack on the Muslim community in the UK, and we need a clear response to such tv-viewer-ratings-peddle merchants

I say again it doesnt really matter what ism it is surely the people in charge knew what was going on in the mosque,if they didnt in todays climate maybe they should resign and let somebody who is better equipped do the job.

I thought it was against forum rules to use letters that big?

[plekhanov 10]

Most Muslims in the UK dont follow this school but instead the 4 orthodox schools, if you want me to give more detail than i should that is Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki and Hanbali. these are the 4 orthodox schools of thought. Wahabism isnt. I hope that explains it.

 

If the documentary tommorow doesnt highlight this then it is a clear attack on the Muslim community in the UK, and we need a clear response to such tv-viewer-ratings-peddle merchants

And what exactly are the teachings of these 'moderate' orthodox schools of Islam when it comes to homosexuals, apostates...?

 

Do they teach that homosexuals should be free to live their lives on an equal basis with heterosexuals and that people unlucky enough to be raised as Muslims should be free to convert to other faiths or no faith at all when they mature without being sanctioned or punished in anyway?

[chele510 10]

the truth is that many of the scandal rags that pose as "newsapers" do print stories that

 

a) suit their own agenda,

 

and b) are often "spun" for the benefit of whipping up outrage/ scandal etc.

 

and as one famous newspaper mogul said... "it's easier to print a retraction than to tell the truth!"

 

With many newspapers, as I have said before, (particularly the "redtops") about the only thing you can trust to be accurate and truthful is the title of the newspaper and/ or the date, and even that may not be accurate.

 

The dark side that you talk about does exist, unfortunately, and certainly needs weeding out, but thank God (thank DOYC?) the moderate, decent everyday Muslim (as with the moderate, decent everyday non-muslim citizen) is in the majority.

 

Maybe what you're saying is true to some extent but there is no smoke without fire - unless you live in fairyland and like to believe that all the nasty media people do is tell lie after lie.

 

WAKE UP and smell the curry 9/11 REALLY happened, 7/7 REALLY happened and were both REALLY committed by muslims and in the aftermath of both atrocities high profile muslims spoke out against the acts - but behind closed doors they all know that this EXTREMISM is happening in a mosque near you.

[Ninjamagic 10]

And what exactly are the teachings of these 'moderate' orthodox schools of Islam when it comes to homosexuals, apostates...?

 

Do they teach that homosexuals should be free to live their lives on an equal basis with heterosexuals and that people unlucky enough to be raised as Muslims should be free to convert to other faiths or no faith at all when they mature without being sanctioned or punished in anyway?

 

The 4 schools of Law state that if you live in a Non Muslim country, then as long as they dont tell you to:

 

1) Associate partners with Allah (ie> worship other than him).

2) Eat Pork.

3) Drink Alochol.

4) Engage in Usury.

 

Then you have to abide by the laws of the land. Including if Homosexuals live around you. Islam forbids Homosexuality, im not no apologist, i want to make that clear. However equally as clear is that Islam doesnt allow people to take the religion into its own hands and disregard the effect it has on other people (Muslim or non Muslim).

 

Ironically Suicide Bombing, started happenig in the same way amongst the Muslims and was unheard of. All 4 schools of law forbade it, again Wahabism reared its ugly head and said

 

"Follow your own interpretation (meaning follow us and not the 4 tradional schools" and that is how Bin Laden justified slamming an airoplane into a sky scraper with women and kids aboard.

 

According to the 4 schools of thought, he should have been executed as a rebel. This issue is no different.

 

Regents Park.

Wahabi affiliated (unfortunately).

New Muslims, probably know little Arabic, following Saudi teachings and given mistaken views.

 

In my 20 years of visiting Mosques based on the 4 schoolls of Islam (which tradionally ran for 1400 years) i have never been told by any Imams to go out and kill homosexuals.

 

Finally It is very well known the Saudis are now trying their very best to eradicate any history of the 4 schools. InshAllah they wont suceed.

[tab1 10]

What you mean aside from all the room in the rather large countries in which such extremism predominates and of course the rooms at Regent’s Park Mosque which such extremists were welcome to until the media drew attention to it and it became embarrassing?

Oh yes perhaps I am an extremist because I didn't use every word to your satisfaction. I raely care little of how you view me, but simply pointed out that if the law has been broken then there is the Police to uphold the law of the land. I as a muslim along with majority of Muslims find the comments wrong and do not suscribe to such teachings but don't let that get in the way of creating an Image of Islam that your biased mind desires.

[Glamrock 10]

the truth is that many of the scandal rags that pose as "newsapers" do print stories that

 

a) suit their own agenda,

 

and b) are often "spun" for the benefit of whipping up outrage/ scandal etc.

 

and as one famous newspaper mogul said... "it's easier to print a retraction than to tell the truth!"

 

With many newspapers, as I have said before, (particularly the "redtops") about the only thing you can trust to be accurate and truthful is the title of the newspaper and/ or the date, and even that may not be accurate.

 

The dark side that you talk about does exist, unfortunately, and certainly needs weeding out, but thank God (thank DOYC?) the moderate, decent everyday Muslim (as with the moderate, decent everyday non-muslim citizen) is in the majority.

If its DOYC why did you as a Muslim use the word God and not Allah?

[tab1 10]

WAKE UP and smell the curry 9/11 REALLY happened, 7/7 REALLY happened and were both REALLY committed by muslims and in the aftermath of both atrocities high profile muslims spoke out against the acts - but behind closed doors they all know that this EXTREMISM is happening in a mosque near you.

I think maybe time to take a whiff at the fish n chips too with an acknowledgment that Palistinian issue and the American bases in Saudi Arabia lead to the 9/11 and the Iraq invasion justified on a pack of lies costing the local population almost a million lives lead to 7/7. The extremism of the two attacks is no match of the attrocities committed in name of freeing Iraq. Lets keep things in perspective and not blame the world Muslims for things that may have roots in our own actions against a particular part of the Muslim world.

[plekhanov 10]

The 4 schools of Law state that if you live in a Non Muslim country, then as long as they dont tell you to:

 

1) Associate partners with Allah (ie> worship other than him).

2) Eat Pork.

3) Drink Alochol.

4) Engage in Usury.

 

Then you have to abide by the laws of the land. Including if Homosexuals live around you. Islam forbids Homosexuality,

And the penalty for homosexuality under these 4 schools is what exactly?

 

im not no apologist, i want to make that clear. However equally as clear is that Islam doesnt allow people to take the religion into its own hands and disregard the effect it has on other people (Muslim or non Muslim).

So you not supposed to lynch homosexuals how tolerant

 

Do these 4 schools teach that you should interact with homosexuals on a equal basis? Do they teach that you should try to change the law from it's current tolerant model to one which represses and discriminates homosexual? Do they teach that you should vote for those pushing homosexuals to be equal before the law and so forth?

 

Ironically Suicide Bombing, started happenig in the same way amongst the Muslims and was unheard of. All 4 schools of law forbade it, again Wahabism reared its ugly head and said

 

"Follow your own interpretation (meaning follow us and not the 4 tradional schools" and that is how Bin Laden justified slamming an airoplane into a sky scraper with women and kids aboard.

 

According to the 4 schools of thought, he should have been executed as a rebel. This issue is no different.

Just a piece of advice, if you're trying to convince people how nice 'moderate' Islam is, perhaps you shouldn't boast about it teaching that dissenters should be killed.

 

Regents Park.

Wahabi affiliated (unfortunately).

New Muslims, probably know little Arabic, following Saudi teachings and given mistaken views.

 

In my 20 years of visiting Mosques based on the 4 schoolls of Islam (which tradionally ran for 1400 years) i have never been told by any Imams to go out and kill homosexuals.

So what exactly have you been told to do to homosexuals? If one of your siblings or children turned out to be gay according to your 'moderate' teachings how should you deal with this?

 

Finally It is very well known the Saudis are now trying their very best to eradicate any history of the 4 schools. InshAllah they wont suceed.

I note you studiously avoided answering my question about how the 'moderate' 4 schools of Islam teach apostates should be dealt with, perhaps you could redress this 'oversight' in your next post.