Do I need a certificate for electrical work?

[Googleberry]

Thanks for all the information. I just wanted to get my facts right before the work was started. I would rather pay a little more and have piece of mind, and sleep safe in my bed at night.

I'd rather be able to do it myself and save some money. I resent having to pay because of cowboys. There should be exemption certificates for people who are competent, without them having to work in the trade as a sparky. There are many brilliant and exceedingly well qualified engineers, who can wire a house with far more understanding of what they are doing that your average 'Part P ' electrician, but who are prevented by law from doing so. It is very silly.

[jl-heating]

how can a person be deemed competant with out training in the field they have no training in, i agree you could probably wire a circuit better than a lot of the 6 week wonders around at the min but at least they have the basics and can with experience improve on that skill but most importantly they have the knowledge to test the circuit they have just fitted and walk away with the knowledge it is safe to do so.

 

i agree it is a can of worms...i would rather not have legislation either..

 

it cost me 2.5 k last year to comply.

and again this year with the 17th edition a further 600 pound,

 

plus the niciec registration 415 pound.. then books 150..

plus a day off for work checking... loss of wages ..

 

how can anyone wire a house and be confident that all circuits conform including continuity/earth fault/polarity etc etc with out the latest training and equipment. ?

 

the tester alone cost over 700 pound...

 

so yes i do agree it would be nice to just buy a screw driver and wire a house.

[dogsneck]

before the consumer unit is changed, the electrician should carry out a periodic inspection of the property and any faults found should be corrected and then the unit may be changed and an installation cert issued.

[Googleberry]

how can a person be deemed competant with out training in the field they have no training in, i agree you could probably wire a circuit better than a lot of the 6 week wonders around at the min but at least they have the basics and can with experience improve on that skill but most importantly they have the knowledge to test the circuit they have just fitted and walk away with the knowledge it is safe to do so.

There are other people out there, believe it or not, who have knowledge and skills that go way beyond those of an ordinary electrician. A physicist or electronics engineer, for example, will have a much better understanding of what they are doing and why. Obviously, they would need to refer to the current wiring regulations, but they would have no trouble in understanding them.

 

i agree it is a can of worms...i would rather not have legislation either..

I never said I'd rather not have legislation. Far from it. I think legislation is necessary, but it should not be restrictive to the point of ridicule.

 

it cost me 2.5 k last year to comply.

and again this year with the 17th edition a further 600 pound,

 

plus the niciec registration 415 pound.. then books 150..

plus a day off for work checking... loss of wages ..

Well, my education cost a lot more than that, and my professional registrations costs a lot more than yours. Does that have any bearing on it?

 

how can anyone wire a house and be confident that all circuits conform including continuity/earth fault/polarity etc etc with out the latest training and equipment. ?

 

the tester alone cost over 700 pound...

I'd have thought that if they had a good honours degree in electronic engineering or physics or similar, and had taken the trouble to read-up on the current wiring regulations, I'd say they'd do just fine. Anyway, a physicist/electronics engineer would be unlikely to need the latest, specialised equipment, because they would have all they needed already.

 

so yes i do agree it would be nice to just buy a screw driver and wire a house.

I doubt it would be so much fun!

[jl-heating]

oh dear i seem to have hit a nerve.

[SHsheff]

oh dear i seem to have hit a nerve.

 

I hope you were properly qualified to do that!

[Thunzi]

There are other people out there, believe it or not, who have knowledge and skills that go way beyond those of an ordinary electrician. A physicist or electronics engineer, for example, will have a much better understanding of what they are doing and why. Obviously, they would need to refer to the current wiring regulations, but they would have no trouble in understanding them.

They'd understand what they are doing better and why they are doing it but the quality of installation would be much, much worse. I've no problems admitting I'm a qualified consulting engineer and could if needs be rewire a house. However it'd take me 10 times as long to do as a qualified electrician. I'm not doing it day in day out like they are. The installation would be fine, but no where near as neat, doing the installation well takes practice. I know, I've made contractors rewire installations that aren't up to standard.

 

I never said I'd rather not have legislation. Far from it. I think legislation is necessary, but it should not be restrictive to the point of ridicule.

It isn't at the point of ridicule. Each point of the wiring regulations is highly important. While Part P is bordering on being unnecessary it was brought in due to an increase of odd job men putting people in danger. It wasn’t just about charging people for the privilege.

 

I'd have thought that if they had a good honours degree in electronic engineering or physics or similar, and had taken the trouble to read-up on the current wiring regulations, I'd say they'd do just fine. Anyway, a physicist/electronics engineer would be unlikely to need the latest, specialised equipment, because they would have all they needed already.

Well then you'd have thought wrong. Have you ever been on a building site? Things can go horrendously wrong, very easily. Even if the design is 100% correct it makes no difference if a screw from a piece of plasterboard catches onto a wire. If no continuity or earthing tests takes place, that isn't picked up, someone touches a metal piece around the area and then are shocked. I've seen it, one of the contractors I know has been sued because of it. The real world isn’t like a laboratory.

[Googleberry]

They'd understand what they are doing better and why they are doing it but the quality of installation would be much, much worse. I've no problems admitting I'm a qualified consulting engineer and could if needs be rewire a house. However it'd take me 10 times as long to do as a qualified electrician. I'm not doing it day in day out like they are. The installation would be fine, but no where near as neat, doing the installation well takes practice. I know, I've made contractors rewire installations that aren't up to standard.

Don't impute me with your own lack of skill and ability! Just because you're all fingers and thumbs doesn't mean that I am, does it?

 

It isn't at the point of ridicule. Each point of the wiring regulations is highly important. While Part P is bordering on being unnecessary it was brought in due to an increase of odd job men putting people in danger. It wasn’t just about charging people for the privilege.

It is ridiculous! The law is supposed to be there for the general good. It has no business preventing competent people from doing things that they can do perfectly well!

 

 

Well then you'd have thought wrong. Have you ever been on a building site? Things can go horrendously wrong, very easily. Even if the design is 100% correct it makes no difference if a screw from a piece of plasterboard catches onto a wire. If no continuity or earthing tests takes place, that isn't picked up, someone touches a metal piece around the area and then are shocked. I've seen it, one of the contractors I know has been sued because of it. The real world isn’t like a laboratory.

No, it's you who's wrong! I understand perfectly well the need for thorough and appropriate testing, and I know how to do it. And for your information, my wife was nearly murdered by a qualified electrician, who, after inspecting a light switch, screwed the faceplate screw right through the live wire's insulation. The screw failed to make good contact with the pattress, and so when she touched it a few days later, she was seriously shocked. Now, I wouldn't have done that, you see!

 

When I said that it was unnecessary to have the latest portable mains test kit, I meant just that. I didn't mean that testing was unnecessary!

 

And why assume that I work in a laboratory?

[Thunzi]

Don't impute me with your own lack of skill and ability! Just because you're all fingers and thumbs doesn't mean that I am, does it?

No, but you still won't be able to do it as well

 

It is ridiculous! The law is supposed to be there for the general good. It has no business preventing competent people from doing things that they can do perfectly well!

It is there for the general good. It ensures that the work is tested and inspected. You may feel you can do something competently (I agree with you really - you probably can). Mr Plumber may feel like taking on a bit of wiring however - he isn't competent, the safeguards are there for him which inturn protects you (or atleast one of your families homes not wired by you).

 

No, it's you who's wrong! I understand perfectly well the need for thorough and appropriate testing, and I know how to do it. And for your information, my wife was nearly murdered by a qualified electrician, who, after inspecting a light switch, screwed the faceplate screw right through the live wire's insulation. The screw failed to make good contact with the pattress, and so when she touched it a few days later, she was seriously shocked. Now, I wouldn't have done that, you see!

Erm, no it isn't. In future I'd suggest you hire better electricians! If he'd done his tests correctly that wouldn't have happened. On a site recently we had a lot of problems with a kitchen install, several of the cabinets were made live due to a misplaced screw. Contractor didn't pick it up as they'd not gone in to test it after 2nd fix, sometimes I despair.

 

When I said that it was unnecessary to have the latest portable mains test kit, I meant just that. I didn't mean that testing was unnecessary!

 

And why assume that I work in a laboratory?

Ok, point taken, but to comply with the latest regulations you do...

 

I didn't assume you worked in a laboratory, it was just a phrase for anyone else reading. I saw you're a member of an association (So actually presumed you are probably a senior level of some proffesional trade, but not building industry itself - not sure what though as you mentioned physics a couple of times).

[Zaytsev]

Hope someone can give me some advice. I am having some electrical work done, new fuse box, extra sockets and a light switch. Should I need a certificate from the electrician under the new laws?

 

Oh yes, absolutely.