What do you think of Universal Healthcare?

[Mercenary]

Interesting video on the myth that 45 million Americans are uninsured.

 

http://www.freemarketcure.com/uninsuredinamerica.php

[Mathom]

Correct-a-mondo. If the government is in charge of health care insurance companies can't make money. Further this means doctors, hospitals, and nurses will only get so much money from the government thus taking out the supply/demand for doctors as they'll all get paid the same devaluing the career of a doctor. So where then is the incentive to spend the majority of their life going to school, paying huge amounts of money to go to medical school, to have a mediocre paying job as a doctor? Nowhere- it's a downward spiral.

 

Wrong!

 

Shows how much you know about this topic.

 

Tip - try finding out some facts about the NHS before slagging it off.

[Mercenary]

Wrong!

 

Shows how much you know about this topic.

 

Tip - try finding out some facts about the NHS before slagging it off.

 

I have been trying to find out how much different job titles in the NHS earn on the net but haven't be able to find anything yet. I'll keep searching though.

[Mercenary]

The closest thing I can find is on the NHS job site where you can search for different jobs. All the wages are obviously different but they are in bands which means that the wages are pre-determined.

[alternageek]

As unfortunate an accident and situation that happened to your sister, it sucks and is life. But what do people in those situations expect? A free ride? Never going to happen as the money comes from somewhere and doesn't grow on trees. This being either the tax payers through taxes or the government via taxing the people. Life is never fair as crappy as it sounds.

 

She was without insurance due to being between jobs and this is exactly why you can purchase health insurance outside of working in a job. Further, you didn't explicitly state it but I couldn't help but see an underlying statement that it's someone elses fault that it costs so much. Thank the cost of insurance and high premiums to those taking advantage of the free health care in the States due to not having insurance. A lot of this is due to illegal immigration as they're a huge burden of somewhere in the billions of dollars for health care in the states.

 

But my main point with responsibility is that it's her responsibility to ensure her health and insurance, are up to date and current not the state, not the doctors or hospitals- her's.

 

But this is a point that most who disagree will contend with as they misconstrue the idea of personal responsibility and feel that the government should hold them by the hand in such instances. This only makes Big Brother bigger. This is the decline the country is currently taking and further why socialist systems/ideals are continuing to sprout foward.

 

 

 

Correct-a-mondo. If the government is in charge of health care insurance companies can't make money. Further this means doctors, hospitals, and nurses will only get so much money from the government thus taking out the supply/demand for doctors as they'll all get paid the same devaluing the career of a doctor. So where then is the incentive to spend the majority of their life going to school, paying huge amounts of money to go to medical school, to have a mediocre paying job as a doctor? Nowhere- it's a downward spiral.

 

I think its H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S its taken you over a week to come up with that. Good on you, really.

 

Before insurance companies were controlled by stockbrokers and profits, health care was affordable. My mother told me when she gave birth to me in 1977, she had to have a c-section. For the week she was in hospital it cost her just over $900. That was for the surgery, the stay and everything that went with it (even baby clothes, diapers and formula since I was difficult even then and refused to bread feed), and that was with her insurance. Apparently I wasnt covered when I was born as her policy didnt cover dependants (like a lot of American policies). My parents - with both of them being out of work (Dads union went on strike and he was laid off, my mother was on maternity leave) - we're able to pay off the bill without it hurting them too much financially (though it meant I was eating homemade baby food and wearing cloth diapers, what did i care, I was 6 months old). Nowadays the same thing would bankrupt a person. The majority of people out there can barely afford to buy a home, let alone pay for medical bills. My parents are average working class people, not your on the dole scum. They didnt qualify for US benefits because they owned a home and had some savings

 

Millions of people in the US are uninsured or under insured. People who work at places like Wal-Mart and the like have VERY basic coverage, and its very expensive (about $150 per month per person). Most people I know working a job like that cant afford to "upgrade" to a package with better care and benefits. They work their asses off and dont go to the Dr to save money because their co-pay for a visit (with NO tests) is $50. Thats without the need of medicine. I know with my asthma, my inhaler cost about $20 with my prescription plan. The same inhaler here, with exchange rate, costs $13. The extra $7 would have bought milk and bread for the week. Or 2 gallons of gas so I could get to work so I can put more into my health care.

 

In the states, unlike here, most places only provide you with one weeks worth of holiday time a year. Those 5 days also cover your sicktime so you get paid if youre too poorly to work. Once youve been employed somewhere for a year or more, you may get 5 more days. If we go private you better believe well lose our holiday time.

 

Until you are completely without, you will never ever know what its like. I hope you go on holiday in the states and forget to buy your travel insurance and then get seriously hurt. Id like to see you be able to pay.

 

I know the American system is broken, but theres a reason why its the way it is and thats because of the $$$$$$$

[Mercenary]

I think its H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S its taken you over a week to come up with that. Good on you, really.

 

Before insurance companies were controlled by stockbrokers and profits, health care was affordable. My mother told me when she gave birth to me in 1977, she had to have a c-section. For the week she was in hospital it cost her just over $900. That was for the surgery, the stay and everything that went with it (even baby clothes, diapers and formula since I was difficult even then and refused to bread feed), and that was with her insurance. Apparently I wasnt covered when I was born as her policy didnt cover dependants (like a lot of American policies). My parents - with both of them being out of work (Dads union went on strike and he was laid off, my mother was on maternity leave) - we're able to pay off the bill without it hurting them too much financially (though it meant I was eating homemade baby food and wearing cloth diapers, what did i care, I was 6 months old). Nowadays the same thing would bankrupt a person. The majority of people out there can barely afford to buy a home, let alone pay for medical bills. My parents are average working class people, not your on the dole scum. They didnt qualify for US benefits because they owned a home and had some savings

 

Millions of people in the US are uninsured or under insured. People who work at places like Wal-Mart and the like have VERY basic coverage, and its very expensive (about $150 per month per person). Most people I know working a job like that cant afford to "upgrade" to a package with better care and benefits. They work their asses off and dont go to the Dr to save money because their co-pay for a visit (with NO tests) is $50. Thats without the need of medicine. I know with my asthma, my inhaler cost about $20 with my prescription plan. The same inhaler here, with exchange rate, costs $13. The extra $7 would have bought milk and bread for the week. Or 2 gallons of gas so I could get to work so I can put more into my health care.

 

In the states, unlike here, most places only provide you with one weeks worth of holiday time a year. Those 5 days also cover your sicktime so you get paid if youre too poorly to work. Once youve been employed somewhere for a year or more, you may get 5 more days. If we go private you better believe well lose our holiday time.

 

Until you are completely without, you will never ever know what its like. I hope you go on holiday in the states and forget to buy your travel insurance and then get seriously hurt. Id like to see you be able to pay.

 

I know the American system is broken, but theres a reason why its the way it is and thats because of the $$$$$$$

 

1st Bold

 

Once again, please do not take this so personally. So what if it was a week before I replied- I do have other things to do outside posting on forums.

 

2nd Bold

 

That is their problem if they work in Walmart and can't afford it, people who can afford it shouldn't have to subsidise those who can't. If people at Walmart want better cars and houses should people who earn more pay for it? Of course not.

 

3rd Bold

 

That would be my responsibility and if it happened I wouldn't expect a hand out.

[alternageek]

1st Bold

 

Once again, please do not take this so personally. So what if it was a week before I replied- I do have other things to do outside posting on forums.

 

2nd Bold

 

That is their problem if they work in Walmart and can't afford it, people who can afford it shouldn't have to subsidise those who can't. If people at Walmart want better cars and houses should people who earn more pay for it? Of course not.

 

3rd Bold

 

That would be my responsibility and if it happened I wouldn't expect a hand out.

 

 

a) you gave a quick answer when you originally answered to that post. then decided that wasnt good enough and took a week to think about it to come up with a retort.

 

b) we are humans and we all deserve the best in life. some people may be able to do better than working in wal-mart, but outside circumstances prevent them from doing so (single mother, disabled, lack of reliable transportation, etc). This isnt like having the best car money can afford, this is ones health. any old clunker can get you from a to b, but having the same health care as everyone else, regardless of finances, means we all have the same fighting chance to be on this earth.

 

c) but would you be happy going broke because of it? then not being able to afford the follow up treatment? its not a hand out. we all pay into the NHS.

 

d) im not taking this personally, its just something i strongly believe in. if we do this for health care, should we do the same for education? parents who are out of work arent allowed to send their children to school because they cant afford to pay? should the goverment start charging for that? or make us "top up"? its the same thing. we are entitled to basic rights, and having decent health care is just one of them.

[Mercenary]

a) you gave a quick answer when you originally answered to that post. then decided that wasnt good enough and took a week to think about it to come up with a retort.

 

b) we are humans and we all deserve the best in life. some people may be able to do better than working in wal-mart, but outside circumstances prevent them from doing so (single mother, disabled, lack of reliable transportation, etc). This isnt like having the best car money can afford, this is ones health. any old clunker can get you from a to b, but having the same health care as everyone else, regardless of finances, means we all have the same fighting chance to be on this earth.

 

c) but would you be happy going broke because of it? then not being able to afford the follow up treatment? its not a hand out. we all pay into the NHS.

 

d) im not taking this personally, its just something i strongly believe in. if we do this for health care, should we do the same for education? parents who are out of work arent allowed to send their children to school because they cant afford to pay? should the goverment start charging for that? or make us "top up"? its the same thing. we are entitled to basic rights, and having decent health care is just one of them.

 

a) You can believe what you want to but I haven't been on the forum all week, I came on this morning and posted

 

b & d) I understand these points, indeed up until recently I would have agreed with them but now I can see that single mothers, disabilities as horrible as they are, aren't my problem and I shouldn't have to pay anything to help them. Education is also an interesting debate in and of itself, private education is obviously of a higher standard than public. If it was all private and the burden of paying for public eduation was taken off the taxpayer then those who couldn't afford it would have to be taught by volunteers or at home but that would be their responsibility.

 

c) The NHS? We were talking about in America weren't we?

[poppins]

Seing that you all know so much about the healthcare in the USA, I suppose that you all ready know that theres PLENTY of free health care here for people that can't afford it< NO ONE gets turned away from a doctors office or a hospital.

 

But why go into detail...you already know every thing. so figure it out for yourselves or just make it up like usual.

[Magilla]

Is universal healthcare morally sound or does it aid in the creation of people and a society in general that no longer take responsibilty for their actions?

 

Many people become ill through no fault of their own. Do these people count?

 

Until recently I would have argued strongly that universal healthcare is a basic human right and entitlement for all but now I am not so sure. Rather than being taxed for the service I would rather the whole industry goes private and people made/forced to fend for themselves or so to speak.

 

Forced how?

 

I can not see how it is my responsibility to foot the bill for someone else to have health care.

 

Then why do you pay taxes at all? It's a two way street, it's a social responsibility. All taxes benefit everyone (ideally), so why would anyone pay any taxes when they should look after No.1?

 

Telling me I have to pay into something to make sure someone else has health care is just like telling me I have to pay so someone else can have a car.

 

I bears no comparison whatsoever (IMV). How do you feel about education? Do you wonder why you pay for other people's kids to be educated?

 

The quote below is from another forum in which, ironically, I was arguing for universal healthcare but now I think it sums up my view nicely.

 

Except every example is meaningless, and you can live quite happily without any of them, the bit about research is simply nonsense, total lies. These are the types of arguement you hear in places like the US, where they raise the heckles by declaring universal healthcare a "Socialist/Communist" ideal that has no place in a capitalist society... obviously they forget to mention the police, the army, national security, education and all the rest.

 

I also think doctors and others in the industry and treated unfairly- they should not be civil servants

 

They aren't.

 

a doctor should be able to charge whatever the market demands.

 

They can if they want, but then ofcourse they wouldn't get much work.

 

It also puts the doctor in a rather awkward position since they've made an oath do "do no harm". How is this compatible with refusing treatment on financial grounds?

 

So, any thoughts?

 

The NHS isn't perfect but compared to some of the horror stories I've heard from people who are forced to take out private insurance, it's a godsend.

 

It's annoying that many people who either haven't paid in or arent entitled to use the service do, but this is more the fault of government than the service itself.

 

One could argue that "taking responsibility" could be killing someone else, since the state becomes responsible for your wellbeing if you are ill in prison (it has happened in the US). Not the sort of thing I'd like to see happening.