What do you think of Universal Healthcare?

[JFKvsNixon]

The difference is that you have a choice to pay into a private firm, the government just takes it. That makes it a personal choice.

 

Is there really a choice about providing health care for your self? You either can afford to or you can't, that is not a choice. With the NHS there is a choice, use the NHS or go private.

[JFKvsNixon]

Not in a traditional sense but take the case of dentists. A dentist working for the NHS makes no where near the amount as one working in a private practice. Pure capitalism requires no state intervention and the market forces of supply and demand to figure out prices of products and services.

 

Forces of supply and demand have no place in health care. Health and the benefits of a healthy society cannot be a commodity to be bought and sold.

[Mercenary]

Forces of supply and demand have no place in health care. Health and the benefits of a healthy society cannot be a commodity to be bought and sold.

 

That is where we disagree then.

 

So you would rather pay more to have a private insurance firm administer your heathcare than have the NHS administer it for a cheaper rate?! And have to pre-approve the ambulance when you have an accident or heart attack then just rest assured one is supposed to come and scrape you up no questions asked?

 

There is no guarantee that it would be more expensive just as there is no guarntee that it would be cheaper. That is a moot point either way because the debate surrounds personal responsibility and not personal costs.

[Mathom]

There is no guarantee that it would be more expensive just as there is no guarntee that it would be cheaper. That is a moot point either way because the debate surrounds personal responsibility and not personal costs.

 

There IS no debate around personal responsibility. Go to America and look at the people waddling round Vegas chomping on Corn Dogs, then go to Sweden and look at the sickeningly fit people.

 

And it will always be logically much more expensive to have thousands of private companies doing admin for healthcare simply because there are more of them! That's without taking into the equation the vast sums paid by them to greedy lawyers whose job it is to stop The Paying Customers getting their cancer drugs at all costs.

 

An employee of one company even testified to the Supreme Court that she was personally responsible for thousands of deaths because she wanted to get the bonus she was promised if she denied enough claims. That's just ONE company amongst thousands.

 

Under private health YOUR premiums go up to pay for more and more admin in order to save the shareholders money.

[Mercenary]

There IS no debate around personal responsibility. Go to America and look at the people waddling round Vegas chomping on Corn Dogs, then go to Sweden and look at the sickeningly fit people.

 

And it will always be logically much more expensive to have thousands of private companies doing admin for healthcare simply because there are more of them! That's without taking into the equation the vast sums paid by them to greedy lawyers whose job it is to stop The Paying Customers getting their cancer drugs at all costs.

 

An employee of one company even testified to the Supreme Court that she was personally responsible for thousands of deaths because she wanted to get the bonus she was promised if she denied enough claims. That's just ONE company amongst thousands.

 

Under private health YOUR premiums go up to pay for more and more admin in order to save the shareholders money.

 

Like I said before, the system is broken in places like America- I totally agree with you there. But the fact that the foundation is based upon personal responsibility means that I belive it to be better system. The obesity crisis in America is beginning to be mirrored here in the UK, we have polar healthcare systems but here the tax payer is expected to foot the bill rather than the obese themselves as in the States. Universal healthcare seems a good idea until people start taking the proverbial.

[Mathom]

Like I said before, the system is broken in places like America- I totally agree with you there. But the fact that the foundation is based upon personal responsibility means that I belive it to be better system. The obesity crisis in America is beginning to be mirrored here in the UK, we have polar healthcare systems but here the tax payer is expected to foot the bill rather than the obese themselves as in the States. Universal healthcare seems a good idea until people start taking the proverbial.

 

No matter what happens here, the very fact that the USA has had a focus on private care for almost 40 years and still has the most unhealthy people wandering around (vastly higher rates of HIV are another comparison) means that you're simply wrong about 'personal responsibility'.

 

Name me another developed country without Universal Health Care which has an effective system.

[Mercenary]

No matter what happens here, the very fact that the USA has had a focus on private care for almost 40 years and still has the most unhealthy people wandering around (vastly higher rates of HIV are another comparison) means that you're simply wrong about 'personal responsibility'.

 

Name me another developed country without Universal Health Care which has an effective system.

 

The overall health of the country isn't what is at the heart of the matter. Millions of American's may be obese but that is their own choice. Earlier Kerri said this:

 

So youre saying if youre sick and poor then you should just die?

nice.

 

I would say that they are not my responsibility, same as in the States the obese are not the responsibility of the healthy.

[JFKvsNixon]

The overall health of the country isn't what is at the heart of the matter. Millions of American's may be obese but that is their own choice. Earlier Kerri said this:

 

 

 

I would say that they are not my responsibility, same as in the States the obese are not the responsibility of the healthy.

 

When you have a few haves and a lot of have-nots in something as fundamental as healthcare, it more often then not disrupts society. The have-nots problems may not be your responsibility, but they may well end up affecting you.

[Mercenary]

When you have a few haves and a lot of have-nots in something as fundamental as healthcare, it more often then not disrupts society. The have-nots problems may not be your responsibility, but they may well end up affecting you.

 

I think you would not see as many 'have-nots' in a soceity where personal responsibility is paramount.

[alternageek]

That is the crutch of the argument. In a system where by there is no universal healthcare and 100% personal responsibilty then yes if you can't afford it you would perish. But I don't think it would happen. What I believe is that under such as system there would be, for lack of a better word, 'charity' doctors/surgeries/clinics etc where good hearted volunteers would work for the type of people you are referring to. This would still encourage personal responsibilty as that care would not be as good as that which can be afford by those who have a greater income.

 

But if someone say has athama/autism/ms/etc, conditions that one is born with and not due to income or lifestyle, and that needs to be monitored and cared for carefully, charity drs are not going to help.

 

The states has this and all that happens is that people get a quick glance over and moved along. As human beings we all deserve the best possible chance at survival.

 

What about those who are VERY healthy, and then become redundant from their well to do job that helps them pay for the best cover money can get? They are then suddenly without and become very sick. Are we supposed to let them die as well? Say "Oh well?" What if that as you or someone you were very close to? Would they have the right to die?

 

Sorry for all its quirks and problems, the NHS is one of the better things about this country. Until youve lived without knowing how you would pay for a drs appt, prescriptions or extended hospital visit, then you can keep on thinking how you do.