What do you think of Universal Healthcare?

[Mercenary]

Is universal healthcare morally sound or does it aid in the creation of people and a society in general that no longer take responsibilty for their actions? Until recently I would have argued strongly that universal healthcare is a basic human right and entitlement for all but now I am not so sure. Rather than being taxed for the service I would rather the whole industry goes private and people made/forced to fend for themselves or so to speak. I can not see how it is my responsibility to foot the bill for someone else to have health care. Telling me I have to pay into something to make sure someone else has health care is just like telling me I have to pay so someone else can have a car. The quote below is from another forum in which, ironically, I was arguing for universal healthcare but now I think it sums up my view nicely.

 

So in essence your saying that me, the tax payer - should be FORCED to pay for YOUR medication, no matter how much that might be - and on top of that, I have NO RIGHT to judge you. I should just open up my wallet and let the money go! I believe in personal responsibility. If you cant afford a medication, you should not be using it. Just as you should not live in a castle if you can only afford a one bedroom apartment. Just like you shouldn't drive a corvette if you can only afford a Geo Metro. Life is not fair. It is not supposed to be fare. I do not owe you because you exist. Corvettes would not exist if we all drove around in government supplied Metros. New cutting edge medical procedures would not exist if the government supplied our health care. No money, no incentive, no cool new stuff.

 

I also think doctors and others in the industry and treated unfairly- they should not be civil servants, a doctor should be able to charge whatever the market demands.

 

So, any thoughts?

[Heyesey]

Universal healthcare never has existed, and never will. It's unaffordable. Moral arguments are redundant, bearing that in mind.

[Mathom]

For a kick off whoever wrote the following which you quote lives in Fairyland:

 

New cutting edge medical procedures would not exist if the government supplied our health care. No money, no incentive, no cool new stuff.

 

I'm guessing it's an American, brainwashed by the megabucks pharmaceutical and medical insurance industries who constantly hector Americans that any form of NHS is immoral, throw false 'facts' at them on TV about how British, French or canadian healthcare is little more than going to see a witchdoctor who utters some voodoo over you - all done to protect the immense profits these companies make.

 

So, seeing as we've had an NHS since the 1940s, I presume by the 'reasoning' this product of the great American education system that we still have no ultrasound, no CRT scans, etc etc etc....Actually, he probably confuses 'reasoning' with 'seasoning'

 

The 'taking responsibility' argument is also dead in the water as which nation on earth has the fattest people? America! Don't you somehow think the US of A would be populated by svelte Ubermenschen (as opposed to large burger munchers) if paying for your own healthcare magically instilled 'responsibility'?

 

Don't think it's some kind of wonderful thing, the very concept of which makes you feel free from 'Ver Man' (maaaan), paying for your very own healthcare because it's not. These are profit making companies which exist purely to make a profit and have a vested interest in Ripping You Off.

[alternageek]

Go watch SICKO and then tell me that killing the NHS is a good thing.

 

Or maybe wait till we all have to pay for our own private cover, and when you or your partner gets say ovarian cancer are denied treatment because you went to a dr about a yeast infection YEARS ago then the insurance company can deny your claim and you have to pay the hundreds of thousands of pounds to treat it out of pocket.

 

Or better yet, the people who cant pay for their own healthcare and can only use the A&E for treatment, go in and cant pay their bills. They go into default and the people who pay for that are those with cover. Then your premiums go up. Its one of the reasons why in the US they can charge you over $100 for ONE aspirin. It will be then when the rich will be BEGGING for the NHS back.

[Mathom]

That's exactly right about premiums/costs soaring in the US. And things will hit even harder as less and less people get 'health benefits' provided by their employers. And that's another thing people forget - you may end up with much lower wages and less things like pensions/annual leave/company cars as employers would have to find a way of funding health schemes.

 

A higher percentage of spend on health in the USA also goes on admin than it does in next door Canada, which has an 'NHS'! So you just swap government admin costs in a couple of hundred trusts for paying a couple of thousand private companies to do admin at even MORE cost!

[JFKvsNixon]

As a staunch capitalist, I cannot see any place for universal private health care. I feel that capitalism needs a good NHS to provide a fit and healthy work force.

[Mercenary]

For a kick off whoever wrote the following which you quote lives in Fairyland:

 

 

 

I'm guessing it's an American, brainwashed by the megabucks pharmaceutical and medical insurance industries who constantly hector Americans that any form of NHS is immoral, throw false 'facts' at them on TV about how British, French or canadian healthcare is little more than going to see a witchdoctor who utters some voodoo over you - all done to protect the immense profits these companies make.

 

So, seeing as we've had an NHS since the 1940s, I presume by the 'reasoning' this product of the great American education system that we still have no ultrasound, no CRT scans, etc etc etc....Actually, he probably confuses 'reasoning' with 'seasoning'

 

The 'taking responsibility' argument is also dead in the water as which nation on earth has the fattest people? America! Don't you somehow think the US of A would be populated by svelte Ubermenschen (as opposed to large burger munchers) if paying for your own healthcare magically instilled 'responsibility'?

 

Don't think it's some kind of wonderful thing, the very concept of which makes you feel free from 'Ver Man' (maaaan), paying for your very own healthcare because it's not. These are profit making companies which exist purely to make a profit and have a vested interest in Ripping You Off.

 

I am not proposing the American system as it is broken system itself but I think it starts from the right foundation- taking personal responsibility. I should not have to pay for someone else's medical treatment through the NHS.

 

Go watch SICKO and then tell me that killing the NHS is a good thing.

 

Or maybe wait till we all have to pay for our own private cover, and when you or your partner gets say ovarian cancer are denied treatment because you went to a dr about a yeast infection YEARS ago then the insurance company can deny your claim and you have to pay the hundreds of thousands of pounds to treat it out of pocket.

 

Or better yet, the people who cant pay for their own healthcare and can only use the A&E for treatment, go in and cant pay their bills. They go into default and the people who pay for that are those with cover. Then your premiums go up. Its one of the reasons why in the US they can charge you over $100 for ONE aspirin. It will be then when the rich will be BEGGING for the NHS back.

 

To answer your first paragraph, if I can not afford to pay for the treatment and/or don't have the cover for that said treatment then, no I should not get that treatment. On your second point, as I have already mentioned, the American system is broken and I would not want one that simply mirrors it, just one in which I don't get my freedoms tread on.

[alternageek]

So youre saying if youre sick and poor then you should just die?

nice.

[JFKvsNixon]

I feel that the modern blame culture takes some place in this way of thinking, you can fall ill with out doing anything wrong.

[Zaytsev]

I prefer their films.