Atheism or Humanism?

[Chopsie]

The thing about Christianity is that although God has a plan and a purpose for each and everyone one of us, we have the option of either accepting the plan or not as we please. He has elected to adopt us into his family from before the beginning of time, but like the prodigal son we can choose to leave. In the case of the prodigal son he later changed his mind and returned to the fold where he was warmly received, the father of course being our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

If god were omniscient though, he would already know that I was going to reject his 'plan' for me. Either it was his plan that I would reject it, or he isn't omniscient. Either way, I'm going to hell, and he's known this since before I was even born, so I can't even pray for him to change this as he's already made up his mind.

[Grahame]

Jesus didn't say don't put work before your wife and family (maybe he did, and that would be something we could agree on), what he said was put me above your wife and family.

 

Another example today (and ever since absolutist religion came along) would be someone putting religion before their family, friends and community and killing, repressing and terrorising people in it's name. I can't agree with that.

 

Another example would be to say it's more important to believe than to actually be a good person. I can't agree with that.

 

I think Jesus was talking about discipleship and commitment which people do all the time say in the armed forces when they may leave their family for months on end. Remember Jesus had a job to do and his purpose was all good. (In my opinion)

[satsuma]

What you say about the cross is what I meant, I wasn't thinking about a bit of jewellery. So don't you think giving to charity or tithing a tenth of your income is acting in the spirit of what Jesus was saying.

 

I will tell you what, if you are that desperate arrange a meeting place and there is a hundred pounds waiting for you.

 

So, you would really be willing to die for your belief in Jesus? Isn't that getting dangerously close to the attitude of the suicide bombers?

 

As for the hundred pounds, if you really want to give money then a donation to Oxfam would be very much appreciated by the people it benefits.

[Grahame]

If god were omniscient though, he would already know that I was going to reject his 'plan' for me. Either it was his plan that I would reject it, or he isn't omniscient. Either way, I'm going to hell, and he's known this since before I was even born, so I can't even pray for him to change this as he's already made up his mind.

 

You are right to say God knows what your choice will be but like any father who knows his child and knows the choices they will make, whether they are good choices or not, the child can still go back to his father and say look dad I was wrong. It is called repentance and you know that.

 

But God in his love so loved us that in his omnipotence he had a plan and here it is. Read it carefully.

 

1 Peter chapter 3:

 

"Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison (in hell) 20 that aforetime were disobedient," when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:"

 

Even in Hell God has made a way of escape. And that is what a mighty God we have. Praise his wonderful name.

[hennypenny]

To me the idea of a god, is as ridiculous as a belief in fairies.

 

They are both very old myths, written 100s of years ago, so why are we expected to still believe in one, while the other is commonly accepted as untrue? Who decided which one we should carry on believing and which would be dismissed as superstitious tales for children?

 

I don't want to believe that there is a god who chooses to remain uncommunicable from us - why would they do that? If they are so twisted as to expect us to believe in them, without any evidence, and yet to punish us if we don't, then they are not someone I could respect anyway, so I prefer to carry on not believing in their existence

[Grahame]

So, you would really be willing to die for your belief in Jesus? Isn't that getting dangerously close to the attitude of the suicide bombers?

 

As for the hundred pounds, if you really want to give money then a donation to Oxfam would be very much appreciated by the people it benefits.

 

If I were to die for Christ it would be that others might come to a saving knowledge of his love. I would be sacrificing myself like others have done many times over to save the lives of others.

 

That is the complete opposite of a suicide bomber.

 

My philosophy in life is that if something we do hurts someone, then it is wrong.

 

Consider the Oxfam thing done. Do they give a receipt do you know and if so PM me with an address where I can send it.

[mort]

How come a debate about the difference or not between atheism and humanism has once again become a platform for christian doctrine?

 

Grahame you can't have it both ways, the bible is either the word of god unvarnished or it's not, if you interpret it, as you do, then it's obviously not. End of.

[hamatik]

Grahame you can't have it both ways, the bible is either the word of god unvarnished or it's not, if you interpret it, as you do, then it's obviously not. End of.

I'm not a Christian in any way shape or form, but if the whole planet lived by Christian morals then it would be a better place.

 

.......awaits backlash.

 

Edit: And that doesn't include Mr Bush's religious excuses for his actions.

[Chopsie]

You are right to say God knows what your choice will be but like any father who knows his child and knows the choices they will make, whether they are good choices or not, the child can still go back to his father and say look dad I was wrong. It is called repentance and you know that.

 

But God in his love so loved us that in his omnipotence he had a plan and here it is. Read it carefully.

 

1 Peter chapter 3:

 

"Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison (in hell) 20 that aforetime were disobedient," when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:"

 

Even in Hell God has made a way of escape. And that is what a mighty God we have. Praise his wonderful name.

 

I think you're missing my point - if I don't repent before (or after) I die, if god is omniscient he must have predetermined this would happen. And to go back to an earlier point you made, if Richard Dawkins "doesn't know what he's talking about", how has he become Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University? I quote from 'The God Delusion' and you insult me (and the author) for doing so, yet it is OK for you to throw bible quotations around? Also, when others have used bible quotes to back up THEIR views, you have disregarded them as irrelevant in today's society. I have read both the bible and 'The God Delusion' - can you say the same?

[Grahame]

How come a debate about the difference or not between atheism and humanism has once again become a platform for christian doctrine?

 

Grahame you can't have it both ways, the bible is either the word of god unvarnished or it's not, if you interpret it, as you do, then it's obviously not. End of.

 

Shakespeare, Chaucer and the great works of literature have to be interpreted. End of. (Only joking)