Atheism or Humanism?

[Chopsie]

forsaking your family to follow Jesus doesn't apply today.

 

So when you say you follow the teaching of Jesus, you mean you follow the teachings which suit you and disregard the rest as 'not applicable' today? How do you know that when Jesus said what he said he meant 'but only if it feels relevant to you in your society and/or lifestyle'?

[KJ_VENOM]

I think that you are reading your bible very selectively. Jesus doesn't put any qualifications on his commandments about only giving if there isn't a welfare state, or using the word "hate" when actually means "love a bit less, relatively speaking". If you are happy interpreting the bible in a way that is convenient for you, then that is fine, but at least be honest with yourself that that is what you are doing.

 

Thats what the religious do, they interpretate to justify their own views but if you read it as is written you are usually accused of twisting the bible's words

[Grahame]

I think that you are reading your bible very selectively. Jesus doesn't put any qualifications on his commandments about only giving if there isn't a welfare state, or using the word "hate" when actually means "love a bit less, relatively speaking". If you are happy interpreting the bible in a way that is convenient for you, then that is fine, but at least be honest with yourself that that is what you are doing.

 

You are taking a single verse in isolation, I am taking it in the context in which it was meant.

 

Jesus said (paraphrasing) if you love me take up your cross and follow me, forsaking all others. Meaning to put him at the forefront of our lives.

[Grahame]

So when you say you follow the teaching of Jesus, you mean you follow the teachings which suit you and disregard the rest as 'not applicable' today? How do you know that when Jesus said what he said he meant 'but only if it feels relevant to you in your society and/or lifestyle'?

 

Only in as much as things have changed in two thousand years. We don't carry swords with us?

[Chopsie]

Please don't you or Dawkins presume to tell me about my personal life. It just proves you or Dawkins do not know what you are talking about, I mean to say, who in his right mind would say "If God is (infinitely wise) he must be knowing what he is going to do at some point of time in the future etc. etc.

 

My question is, If God is infinitly wise and has planned the future, why in his wisdom would he want to change it?

 

MY BOLD

 

Please read my post - I did no such thing. You said absolutely that you knew something I thought ridiculous is not. I merely pointed out this was your opinion, not fact. I also pointed out that following Jesus gave YOU a whole new perspective on life, your original comment implied it could give EVERYONE a whole new perspective.

 

As for your second point, if God IS infinitely wise and has planned the future, he has already predetermined my fate, so believing in him or otherwise will have absolutely no bearing on this.

 

BTW, for you to say I don't know what I'm talking about when all we're both doing is expressing opposing views, is just rude IMO.

[satsuma]

You are taking a single verse in isolation, I am taking it in the context in which it was meant.

 

Jesus said (paraphrasing) if you love me take up your cross and follow me, forsaking all others. Meaning to put him at the forefront of our lives.

 

Again, you are reading it in a way that is comfortable for you. When Jesus said "take up your cross", he was literally talking about being willing to be crucified, not about wearing a bit of jewellery and maybe getting into trouble with the HR department of British Airways for it. In the context of the original passage he was talking about his followers sacrificing everything - family, friends, possessions, jobs and even their own lives if they want to follow him. You won't even sacrifice a trivial amount of money because there happens to be a welfare state.

[Grahame]

MY BOLD

 

Please read my post - I did no such thing. You said absolutely that you knew something I thought ridiculous is not. I merely pointed out this was your opinion, not fact. I also pointed out that following Jesus gave YOU a whole new perspective on life, your original comment implied it could give EVERYONE a whole new perspective.

 

As for your second point, if God IS infinitely wise and has planned the future, he has already predetermined my fate, so believing in him or otherwise will have absolutely no bearing on this.

 

BTW, for you to say I don't know what I'm talking about when all we're both doing is expressing opposing views, is just rude IMO.

 

The thing about Christianity is that although God has a plan and a purpose for each and everyone one of us, we have the option of either accepting the plan or not as we please. He has elected to adopt us into his family from before the beginning of time, but like the prodigal son we can choose to leave. In the case of the prodigal son he later changed his mind and returned to the fold where he was warmly received, the father of course being our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[Lotusflower]

I believe that by following the path of my happiness I will find the learning for which I have chosen this lifetime.

 

I believe that within each of us lies the power of our consent to health and to sickness, to riches and to poverty, to freedom and to slavery. It is we who control these and not another!

Life is the mirror if I am strong.

I aspire to, and answer to "Higher Self."

 

It does'nt need a name. Names are like trapping an idea in a cage. Once it has a name it becomes.

[Norbert]

An example today would be that some people put their work or even their football team above their wife and family.

 

Jesus didn't say don't put work before your wife and family (maybe he did, and that would be something we could agree on), what he said was put me above your wife and family.

 

Another example today (and ever since absolutist religion came along) would be someone putting religion before their family, friends and community and killing, repressing and terrorising people in it's name. I can't agree with that.

 

Another example would be to say it's more important to believe than to actually be a good person. I can't agree with that.

[Grahame]

Again, you are reading it in a way that is comfortable for you. When Jesus said "take up your cross", he was literally talking about being willing to be crucified, not about wearing a bit of jewellery and maybe getting into trouble with the HR department of British Airways for it. In the context of the original passage he was talking about his followers sacrificing everything - family, friends, possessions, jobs and even their own lives if they want to follow him. You won't even sacrifice a trivial amount of money because there happens to be a welfare state.

 

What you say about the cross is what I meant, I wasn't thinking about a bit of jewellery. So don't you think giving to charity or tithing a tenth of your income is acting in the spirit of what Jesus was saying.

 

I will tell you what, if you are that desperate arrange a meeting place and there is a hundred pounds waiting for you.