School 1977 vs School 2007

[cgksheff]

media studies and drama? Ugh, about as much use in teh real world as an A in bloody Pottery!

 

Unless the student wants to be a Journo or an actor.

 

... or a radio presenter?

[Rich]

... or a radio presenter?

 

I'm a radio presenter and have never done media studies!

[dark poet]

I'm a radio presenter and have never done media studies!

That's why you work in hospital radio for no pay

[Longcol]

School 1977 vs. School 2007

 

Scenario 1: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

 

1977 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up mates.

 

 

Not at my school - Johnny's mates and Mark's mates would have had a punch up.

 

Then the lasses would have joined in and it got really vicious.

[shoeshine]

Not at my school - Johnny's mates and Mark's mates would have had a punch up.

 

Then the lasses would have joined in and it got really vicious.

 

Aye! Lasses, not money, have always been the root of all evil.

 

"Whistles and ducks behind sofa"

[Hallamton]

Up to a couple of years ago, I would have agreed totally, Hallamton. What has happened, with the increasing meddling, red-tape, criticism, poor directorship, etc, many good, experienced, qualified teachers have realised that if they break down their salary into an hourly rate, they would be as well off and a lot saner/healthier if they got a job as a plumber, builder, joiner, accountant, etc, so have voted with their feet. Many of the ones that are left are simply sitting it out until they can afford to retire. There are some that are highly dedicated optimists, hanging in there, waiting for improvements to the job but these are becoming fewer as they eventually become disillusioned. Instead of tackling these issues at the root cause, the government's answer is to allow schools to employ people without recognised teaching qualifications to fill the gaps, and often without degrees to teach in the classroom, thus saving a bit of money too. However, now that basically anyone can teach the nation's children, due to new policies, and there doesn't even have to be a qualified teacher in the classroom, I can't see the educational success you refer to being built on. Time will tell, but our current 'guinea pigs' will probably pay the price.

 

Both my Mum and Dad are/were teachers and I can tell you that they definately do NOT do it for the money. But hey, not everything revolves around money. I'll use my Dad as an example of this since you seem to think a degree is needed for teaching. My dad went to school and college but didn't go to university. He became a trainee teacher and after over 35 years of teaching, has recently retired. He has so many memories of kids he used to teach and they do of him. About a month ago a man who was in his 30's approached my dad in a shopping centre back home and they talked about their school days over a coffee or two. To be honest, there is a hell of a lot more scrutiny when it comes to having the correct qualifications to be a teacher or not compared with 30 years ago. Not to mention all the background checks that need to be fulfilled if you even with to step into the school. If you honestly think that teachers are simply waiting till they can retire as they've had enough of their job then I think you've being going to a pretty poor school or know very bad professionals. Both my parents would be the first to say that their job has changed immensly over the last 30 years, a lot of the stuff they have to do now is (in their minds) completely irrelevant. But they have never once said to me that the level of education that pupils actually get has gone down, in fact they both agree that there is a lot more stuff that children have to do nowadays.

 

-Michael

[DIVA]

Both my Mum and Dad are/were teachers and I can tell you that they definately do NOT do it for the money. But hey, not everything revolves around money. I'll use my Dad as an example of this since you seem to think a degree is needed for teaching. My dad went to school and college but didn't go to university. He became a trainee teacher and after over 35 years of teaching, has recently retired. He has so many memories of kids he used to teach and they do of him. About a month ago a man who was in his 30's approached my dad in a shopping centre back home and they talked about their school days over a coffee or two. To be honest, there is a hell of a lot more scrutiny when it comes to having the correct qualifications to be a teacher or not compared with 30 years ago. Not to mention all the background checks that need to be fulfilled if you even with to step into the school. If you honestly think that teachers are simply waiting till they can retire as they've had enough of their job then I think you've being going to a pretty poor school or know very bad professionals. Both my parents would be the first to say that their job has changed immensly over the last 30 years, a lot of the stuff they have to do now is (in their minds) completely irrelevant. But they have never once said to me that the level of education that pupils actually get has gone down, in fact they both agree that there is a lot more stuff that children have to do nowadays.

 

-Michael

 

I guess you can only comment on your parents' experiences. CRB checks are relatively a very simple process, and are currently the best way of safeguarding children we have. I don't know of anyone who would argue against these. I guess we disagree on what a young person's educational entitlement is. I believe they have the right to be taught by teachers who hold a degree and a formal post-graduate teaching qualification. 30 or so years ago and the entrance requirements were obviously very different, the requirement of a degree and post-grad teaching qualification or QTS were brought in to help ensure standards across the board, and, as I have said previously, in general, this has happened. Now in recent years, the govt have allowed young people to be taught by people who are often inexperienced, with no relevant degree and post-graduate teaching qualification. If you believe this is progress, then I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you. It is only over the coming years that we will be able to assess any sort of pattern based on this relaxing of standards. Sheffield seem to have jumped on the bandwagon very quickly, saving money by employing non-teachers to teach, if their current place in the national league is starting to reflect this, it is a concern.

[Hallamton]

I just don't think you need a degree to make you a good teacher or not. In my opinion, teaching well isn't really something that can be taught. There is no guidelines that are detailed enough as every child is different and that's when it's upto the teacher themselves to use their own brain. I believe that a young persons educational entitlement is that they are given every opportunity to excel in what they want to and given all the support possible to do this. A degree in teaching will not really effect this. I think that the subject being taught also holds relevence to what qualifications are needed. For example, my secondary school graphics tutor had no teaching qualifications, but he also helped in designing some very influencial buildings and had a vast wealth of knowledge on graphics design. I'd much rather someone to teach my kids who had that experience rather than someone who has a degree in teaching. You also have to look at what a degree in teaching actually involves. You'd be naive to think that the majority of it is actually about teaching. Most of it is to do with planning etc. that I find to be irrelevant as is only used to keep track of a teachers performance.

 

-Michael

 

Edit: Posting my parents as examples was only the beginning. I could pretty much make a list of 100's of teachers who share these views.

[DIVA]

I disagree. Teaching well can be taught. That's why the numerous training centres across the country are graded. Of course every child is different, that's why quality teacher training is of even more importance, including a sound knowledge of the different learning styles that children prefer. In the mixed-ability classrooom, planning is absolutely essential, and knowing how to plan. In future years, govt.s will be seduced by the universal and cheap delivery system of having everything beamed to the classroom via interactive whiteboards and student slates where there will be no teacher at all, just a 'facilitator'. I wonder if this appeals as we are seeing the thin end of the wedge now.

 

There are many people who are great in their profession as designers, interpreters, musicians, but when it comes to teaching it is a totally different matter. Great musicians don't necessarily make great music teachers and that's why the training is essential.

[EdnaKrabappe]

School 1977 vs. School 2007

 

Scenario 1: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

 

1977 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up mates.

 

2007 - Police are called, Armed Response Unit arrives and arrests Johnny and Mark. Mobiles phones with evidence of fight are confiscated. Both are charged with assault, ASBOs are taken out and suspended even though Johnny started it. Diversionary conferences and parent meetings conducted. Mobile phone video shown on 6 internet sites.

 

.

Scenario 2: Jeffrey won't sit still in class, disrupts other students.

 

1977 - Jeffrey is sent to the principal's office and given 6 of the best. Returns to class, sits still and never disrupts the class again.

 

2007 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. Counselled to death. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADHD. School gets extra funding because Jeffrey has a disability. Jeffrey drops out of school.

 

 

Scenario 3: Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him the slipper.

 

1977 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normally, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

 

2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. Psychologist convinces Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mum has an affair with the psychologist. Psychologist gets a promotion.

 

 

Scenario 4: Mark brings cigarettes to school .

 

1977 - Mark shares a smoke with the school principal out on the smoking area.

 

2007 - Police are called and Mark is expelled from School for drug possession. His car is searched for drugs and weapons.

 

 

Scenario 5: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers, puts them in a model plane paint bottle and blows up an anthill.

 

1977 - Ants die.

 

2007 - MI5 and police are called and Johnny is charged with perpetrating acts of terrorism. Teams investigate parents, siblings are removed from the home, computers are confiscated, and Johnny's dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly with American airlines ever again.

 

 

Scenario 6: Johnny falls during playtime and scrapes his knee. His teacher, Mary, finds him crying, and gives him a hug to comfort him.

 

1977 - Johnny soon feels better and goes back to playing.

 

2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in prison. Johnny undergoes five years of therapy; becomes a deviant.

 

oh dear! Not so much about school but our society's views in general.

 

Can i add one?

 

Child gets into trouble and has to miss a break as a consequence

 

1977:Child misses break, goes home says nothing, or says something and parent says you must have done something to be in trouble. Child learns lesson and does not repeat the same behaviour again.

 

2008: Child goes home, complains to parent. A thirty minute interview of whether child is in trouble has to be followed up to come to same conclusion. Parent comes in, complains infront of child thus destroying any respect child has for teacher. Once parent is sat down for half an hour after being calmed down they start to admit that child is no angel, they have this same behaviour at home and parent breaks down, they then send child out and admit you were right all along. However child sees that teacher has made parent cry, parent has shouted at teacher, therefore why should they change their behaviour? Behaviour is still there for foreseeable future and the above scenario continues.