St Luke's bid for Graves Park / Norton Nurseries

[wolfstalin 10]

What more facts need to be known before they can make a decision?

Are the interests of the city council the same as the JG Graves Trust?

Surely the trustees can decide NOW whether or not they want to sell off the nurseries.

Maybe the only thing they can't decide now is whether to sell it St Lukes or to somebody else.

But I'm sure if they do sell they would need a good reason not to sell to the highest bidder.

 

There's a lot of politicking going on mate.

 

First off there's a large contingent in the labour party that are against this sale and might well deselected councilors who vote for it. So there more than a few members of the group that don't want it ever to get to a vote because its then that they will have to decide to support the leadership and maybe get deselected and or find themselves in court when the legal challenge comes.

 

So what these 'on the fence' councilors hope is that the libdems gain power so they can safely get voted down while still appearing to support the leadership.

[cptntacredi 10]

None.

 

This is a device to silence the opposition within the councillors and pressurise New Labour councillors to got along with the scheme.

 

If they sell to any but the highest bidder they get SURCHARGED, which is the problem.

 

Usually any mention of this by the City Solicitor causes councillors to run away.

 

Also as trustees of the Graves Park Trust - a completely different charity from the J.G. Graves Trust, so why was there an error in the council minutes - they can only act in the interests of the park or the Charity Commision steps in.

 

But the New Labour leadership are completely committed to the scheme and clearly hope some sort of fiddle can be found to get it through.

[thunder 10]

This extract from Friends of Blacka Moor website has a familiar ring to it.

 

The decision to declare Blacka Moor a Nature Reserve, alongside the other Sheffield sites, was already taken at council level. So those attending the meetings were presented with that as a fait accompli. This was a matter for some comment and contention even early on because of a strong perception among a small number of those attending that this might not be consistent with the original designation embedded in the Graves Covenant. This could have been cleared up at the outset if the council officers in legal and administration had produced the document and the RAG meetings and individuals enquiring had been able to examine it. But for some reason those who were awkward enough to make enquiries were fobbed off, and when it was raised at RAG meetings there was an airy suggestion of impenetrable legalese and some mention of paths being maintained. Even when councillors were discussing the matter in committee they were presented with a paper telling them that it was not good practice to disclose such things!

 

A copy of the paper can be found here.

 

Has anyone seen the original Graves Park deeds and those for the later incorporation of Norton Nurseries? It would be interesting to see detailed maps.

[cgksheff 44]

........

 

Also as trustees of the Graves Park Trust .......

 

The "Graves Park Charity", please.

[Tony 10]

What more facts need to be known before they can make a decision?

Are the interests of the city council the same as the JG Graves Trust?

Surely the trustees can decide NOW whether or not they want to sell off the nurseries.

 

Don't forget the small matter of tomorrows local council election.

 

As I understand it the Lib-Dems as a party have stated their opposition. The other major party haven't said a dicky bird except to confirm in writing that that they have a policy of flogging off 10% off all our parkland.

[cptntacredi 10]

The Friends of Blacka Moor should know this is absolutely standard behaviour in these situation by the officers with ignoring the trust deeds, taking decisions in advace, fobbing people off with legalise and refusing to produce the trust deeds. Added to that conning gullible councillors about the situation in "Yes Councillor" replies.

 

This is why it's such a good thing an umbrella organisation has formed to cover all friends groups for green spaces.

 

There is an amazing paper and map on line for the Nurseries of Graves Park, listed on prevoius posts on this thread which states the officers would not accept the land had charitable status ten years ago and only reluctantly accepted it when the Charity Commission ruled that it was.

 

Ominously it also says the trust deeds for Graves Park are being rewritten and has a map showing vast areas of hte park not a part of the charity's land, which could be exchanged as land of equal value and amenity for the Chantry Cottage but the nurseries as well.

 

[thunder 10]

Going back to the similarities with Blacka Moor, the letter to councillors says:

 

2.1 Blacka Plantation is held by the Council subject to Charitable Trusts. The charity is not registered with the Commission but in all other respects the Council acts as a Charitable Trustee and must comply with the terms of the trust, the general law and in particular the Charities Act 1993.

 

3.0 Power To Release Deeds

3.1 The deeds of an unregistered charity are not public property. Power to release copies of the deeds rests with the trustees.

3.2 This is the position irrespective of the fact that the Council is a publicly accountable body.

 

Mark Webster

Director of Legal and Administrative Services

Town Hall

Sheffield

S1 2HH

 

November, 2001

 

According to the Charity Commission, Graves Park Charity was registered on 23 Jan 1981 (Registered Number 510841) 20 years before the date of the letter and J G Graves Charitable Trust was registered on 22 Sep 1963 (Registered Number 207481) 38 years before the date of the letter.

 

As a matter of interest, which unregistered charity was Mark Webster talking about at the time?

[DIVA 10]

Did anyone hear the programme on Radio Sheffield yesterday lunchtime? I sadly missed it. Apparently there were representatives from the 3 major parties, so I've been told, and they were asked about Graves Park. Two of them were pretty clear that they felt parkland should be protected apparently, but apparently, Jan Wilson (representing Labour) was not at all happy with the questionning and was very vague, saying something to the effect of, they didn't have the plan and wouldn't have it or be able to consider it until after the election. If anyone heard it and can confirm this, or fill us in, please do.

[cgksheff 44]

Any idea what time or who's programme?

[DIVA 10]

Any idea what time or who's programme?

 

Hi, just confirmed it was YESTERDAY on Rony(sp?)'s programme about 12-1.

[Tony 10]

That's interesting. It's available to listen to here.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/sheffield.shtml

 

 

Edit: or maybe not. Does it work for anyone else?

[cgksheff 44]

I started to look, but they only keep the last show available for "Listen Again".