A few thoughts on the group

[sauerkraut 10]

I’ve been doing a bit of pondering so here’s a new thread for thoughts on the writing group. Hope that’s OK with everyone.

 

For my part, I allow myself the occasional dream of seeking publication...one day...maybe... I’m looking to improve my writing so I appreciate all feedback, detailed or otherwise, including criticism of my grammar and spelling. If someone wants to tell me they find something I’ve written really boring or they just hate it then I need to hear that too – although it would also be helpful to hear some reasons for that opinion.

 

I can understand, though, that there are contributors who prefer to post their writing simply for the pleasure of sharing. And it would be a shame if they’re put off by suddenly finding their work subjected to a detailed critique which they had never sought.

 

I think the problem is that it isn’t clear what kind of response is expected. Sometimes this stops me saying anything at all. But then I feel guilty if I see someone’s gone to the trouble of writing and posting something and they get little or no response. And sometimes I get despondent myself and disappear off the scene altogether for weeks at a time...

 

I wonder if a solution might be for us simply to say when we submit something what kind of response we’re looking for. Perhaps we could simply add a one-liner when we post, something like “critique welcome” or “critique not required”? Maybe the uploading instructions could be amended to remind people to state their choice when contributing.

 

Just my two pennorth.

[coyleys 10]

I am in total agreement with you sauerkraut, especially with…

 

“But then I feel guilty if I see someone’s gone to the trouble of writing and posting something and they get little or no response".

 

To most this is a hobby and the usual commitments we have sometimes restrict us from reading, writing or commenting on others work, that is why I think a simple acknowledgment “Nicely wrote, sauerkraut” is better than nothing.

[Annoni_mouse 10]

I would agree with the comments already posted.

 

I think that Manta, along with all the contributors, do a very good job of keeping the group an inviting place for aspiring writers to post their work.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought there was already the provision for inviting a critique, if so desired? Either way I think a simple comment along the lines of those suggested by sauerkraut are perfectly adequate.

 

From a purely personal point of view, as someone who hopes that maybe one day his meagre talents may lead to publication, criticism is one of the main tools for personal improvement, at least as I see it.

[shoeshine 10]

I fear that certain comment(s) I made on a different Thread within the Writer's Group is somehow intended as a criticism of the Group Leader.

 

No such intention was meant or implied. I know Mantaspook's a great Group Leader. He's an excellent writer, a person of high integrity and has the well-being of the Group totally at heart. In addition he has imaginative ideas of ways to improve the Membership statistics and Server contribution rates. He's a much better GL for a Group of this nature than I could ever hope to be.

 

I consider him to be a friend, stalwart and true in all his dealings.

 

With regard to critiques, maybe we could keep re-writes separate from the "open" Section. I think it possibly acts as a deterrent/demotivation perhaps frightening away potential newcomers/future contributors who take a quick look at the Group and can't read the contributions originally stored on the remote Server anyway.

 

The casual viewer, perhaps thinking of joining the Group or contributing their own writings in a less technical writing environment, is faced with seeing a plethora of advice and re-writes which possibly scares them away.

 

I think we need to widen the Group's appeal to a wider audience within Sheffield Forum Members, in a way akin to opening a book, reading the first page and deciding at that point it's worthwhile enough to "read on".

 

We all have e-mail addresses. Why not consider including it together with a request for a critique when placing your work on the WG Server on each occasion? The writer would then have critiques/rewrites sent by e-mail (in private) and could respond on a one-to-one basis with the critic/re-writer off the "Front Page".

 

Please feel free to criticise this idea, or offer alternatives to it.

[sauerkraut 10]

I dunno, shoeshine, I like seeing the comments on other people's contributions: it can be useful for one's own writing, as well as simply interesting to see how a piece is viewed by others and perhaps how they might have done it differently. I think it would be a bit of a shame to have that done behind the scenes. Just my opinion.

 

Could it somehow be made clear to casual observers that someone's writing has only been subjected to this treatment because they specifically requested it? Maybe have it so that critiques/re-writes and the like are only offered if asked for.

 

Perhaps a friendly welcoming sticky could explain the position?

[Malanimal 10]

Personally I really like getting criticism - I know my grammar is pretty poor despite my best efforts and sometimes I lose the ability to actually tell the tale. I have dreams of being a "writer" in the fairly short term (insert mocking laughter here) but a few years ago I would've found it harsh to have my stuff ripped to shreds. I agree with:

 

Maybe have it so that critiques/re-writes and the like are only offered if asked for .... Perhaps a friendly welcoming sticky could explain the position?

 

and

 

Maybe the uploading instructions could be amended to remind people to state their choice when contributing.

 

 

It would be good to have guidance to the effect that when someone hasn't asked for critique people should give positive feedback. In a so-so story there could still be replies to the effect of "I liked that line that went..." or "the character really grew on me" or "I really liked how you spelt 'the'" or summat..., ok maybe not the last one. The guidance could be to give positive feedback when critiques/rewrites haven't been asked for. Sort of half the critique as it were.

[Peacock Lady 10]

My concerns regarding this group is that the balance is wrong: there are not enough writers with experience and knowledge to help the many new writers which make most of the posts. I've not criticised any work here simply because there's too much for me to cover, and if I only comment on a couple then it might make the writers feel unfairly singled out (whether for praise or criticism).

 

While this group can and should provide a useful support group for writers, I'm afraid that in order to get real, valuable writing advice people will have to go elsewhere. Asking for help from people who just don't know is not a very productive exercise.

 

And before I get accused of telling people off again, please note that this isn't intended to sneer at anyone at all: just that in the past few months I've seen lots of misinformation given out here, and far too much misguided praise, all due to ignorance and inexperience.

 

There are writing forums where you can ask for advice about your work and get feedback from real, published, experienced writers. Some are free, others you pay for. Here are two that seem good, but I know there are many more out there. Let me know what you think.

 

http://www.absolutewrite.com

http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/

[sauerkraut 10]

As I said in my original post, I welcome all feedback. It's interesting to hear what other people think of what I've written, and I'm not too concerned if they're not "experts." At least they're readers!! I'm also only too well aware that none of my contributions to this group would be considered worthy of publication.

 

I do appreciate that a professional critique has to be sought elsewhere and - more than likely - paid for. Thank you for the links on that, by the way, PL: I like the look of the second one in particular.

[Peacock Lady 10]

I'm not suggesting that this place isn't useful: it is, if it provides support and encouragement that you wouldn't get elsewhere. It's just that if you want to improve your work you'll do so more quickly if you're advised by experts in the field than if you're advised by people with not much experience or knowledge.

 

The second link is to a forum which charges, by the way. They're meant to be good there, and I think you can get a free month at the start, to see how it goes. I'd be very wary of paying for a critique, unless I was absolutely sure that the people giving the critique were experienced and knowledgeable: that would have to be confirmed to my by several sources before I'd go ahead.

[sauerkraut 10]

Don't worry, I wasn't actually considering paying for a professional critique anyway . One thing I have pondered from time to time, though, is one of those writing holidays/weekend workshop type things... so long as I wouldn't be made to wear a kaftan or hug too many trees .

[Peacock Lady 10]

Sorry, I'm afraid you'll find that tree-hugging in a kaftan is mandatory if you want to succeed as a writer. That, and pipe-smoking.

 

(Try the Arvon Foundation. Their courses are wonderful.)

[sauerkraut 10]

Oh well. A writer's gotta do what a writer's gotta do. Pass the tobacco, please.