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14-06-2013, 12:21   #1
boyfriday
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Walked past some big gate posts at the weekend marked 'Whiteley Wood Grange', which lead to the 70's properties at the top of Hangingwater Road.

It looks like there was some large property on the site before they were built but I can't remember it or having ever heard anything about it.

Does anyone remember Whiteley Wood Grange and who lived there?

May be one for my mate Hillsbro!
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15-06-2013, 10:59   #2
Moirahyde
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Taken from the book 'The Growth of Ranmoor, Hangingwater and Nether Green'
by Peter Warr who is the co-ordinator for the Ranmoor Society.

In 1878-1879, Charles Thompson (1815-1897) built the now demolished Whitely
Wood Grange. The front gate being on the corner of Hangingwater Road and
Carr Bank Lane. Charles Thompson ran horse buses to Broomhill and Ranmoor.

It is a great read for anyone who has ancestors from the area.

Moira.
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15-06-2013, 18:37   #3
hillsbro
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May be one for my mate Hillsbro!
Hi boyfriday - Hmmmm.... I'm no expert on the posh end of town, but I do recall hearing about Whiteley Wood Grange, and I knew the area quite well in the 1960s thanks to the King Ted's playing fields being nearby. The 1925 directory gives "Arnold McTurk Spencer, J.P." (1863-1927), a steel manufacturer (Walter & Co. Ltd.) as the occupant of Whiteley Wood Grange. His son Lieutenant Shirley McTurk Spencer had been killed in action in France in 1917. By 1936 "Frederick Roper M.B. Ch.B., physician & surgeon" was the occupant, and some time between 1941 and 1953 Herbert Appleby moved in. The property isn't mentioned in the 1965 directory and so it was presumably demolished some time between 1953 and 1964..
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15-06-2013, 20:54   #4
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Hi boyfriday - Hmmmm.... I'm no expert on the posh end of town, but I do recall hearing about Whiteley Wood Grange, and I knew the area quite well in the 1960s thanks to the King Ted's playing fields being nearby.
Funnily enough I was lamenting the demise of the KES cricket pitch and pavillion on the very same day, turned to a flippin field with horses grazing on it!
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Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
The 1925 directory gives "Arnold McTurk Spencer, J.P." (1863-1927), a steel manufacturer (Walter & Co. Ltd.) as the occupant of Whiteley Wood Grange. His son Lieutenant Shirley McTurk Spencer had been killed in action in France in 1917. By 1936 "Frederick Roper M.B. Ch.B., physician & surgeon" was the occupant, and some time between 1941 and 1953 Herbert Appleby moved in. The property isn't mentioned in the 1965 directory and so it was presumably demolished some time between 1953 and 1964..
Thanks for that Hillsbro, would have loved to see some pics of the old house.

---------- Post added 15-06-2013 at 20:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moirahyde View Post
Taken from the book 'The Growth of Ranmoor, Hangingwater and Nether Green'
by Peter Warr who is the co-ordinator for the Ranmoor Society.

In 1878-1879, Charles Thompson (1815-1897) built the now demolished Whitely
Wood Grange. The front gate being on the corner of Hangingwater Road and
Carr Bank Lane. Charles Thompson ran horse buses to Broomhill and Ranmoor.

It is a great read for anyone who has ancestors from the area.

Moira.
Brilliant, thanks Moira
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15-06-2013, 22:12   #5
hillsbro
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...Funnily enough I was lamenting the demise of the KES cricket pitch and pavillion on the very same day, turned to a flippin field with horses grazing on it!...
I know - is nothing sacred?! All the happy hours spent there, and the lovely old green-painted pavilion "gone with the wind". See here.

There must be photos of Whiteley Wood Grange somewhere. I'll see what I can do....
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15-06-2013, 23:25   #6
soft ayperth
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Is it anywhere near Whiteley Wood Clinic?
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16-06-2013, 11:31   #7
hillsbro
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Originally Posted by rogG View Post
Is it anywhere near Whiteley Wood Clinic?
The location isn't far away. From the clinic, go down Whiteley Wood Road and turn left on to Hangingwater Road - a couple of hundred yards along on the left is where Whiteley Wood Grange was. Needless to say, the "clinic" has now been converted into up-market apartments...

Charles Thompson turns up in the 1881 census return as a "retired coach proprietor" of Whiteley Wood Grange - here is a scan. The 1871 census finds him at Glossop Road, and so the Grange was presumably built in the intervening decade. To judge from census returns, Charles was a self-made man who made a lot of money out of his coaches. In 1841 he was described as a "coachman", of Portobello Street, but by 1851, as a "cab proprietor", he could already afford a house servant, and in 1861 he employed 12 men as a "coach proprietor". By 1871 his business, and his income had presumably grown to the point at which he could contemplate building Whiteley Wood Grange.
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16-06-2013, 22:36   #8
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Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
I know - is nothing sacred?! All the happy hours spent there, and the lovely old green-painted pavilion "gone with the wind". See here.

There must be photos of Whiteley Wood Grange somewhere. I'll see what I can do....
Thanks so much for that Hillsbro, can't believe the pavillion ever looked that good. It was on the way to ramshackled and under the care of 'Austin', when I was there!

---------- Post added 16-06-2013 at 22:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
The location isn't far away. From the clinic, go down Whiteley Wood Road and turn left on to Hangingwater Road - a couple of hundred yards along on the left is where Whiteley Wood Grange was. Needless to say, the "clinic" has now been converted into up-market apartments...

Charles Thompson turns up in the 1881 census return as a "retired coach proprietor" of Whiteley Wood Grange - here is a scan. The 1871 census finds him at Glossop Road, and so the Grange was presumably built in the intervening decade. To judge from census returns, Charles was a self-made man who made a lot of money out of his coaches. In 1841 he was described as a "coachman", of Portobello Street, but by 1851, as a "cab proprietor", he could already afford a house servant, and in 1861 he employed 12 men as a "coach proprietor". By 1871 his business, and his income had presumably grown to the point at which he could contemplate building Whiteley Wood Grange.
Well given how big WWG must have been he didn't do bad for a 'coach proprieter'.

---------- Post added 16-06-2013 at 22:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
Charles Thompson turns up in the 1881 census return as a "retired coach proprietor" of Whiteley Wood Grange - here is a scan.
Love the final column of the census return "Deaf and Dumb, Blind, Imbecile or Idiot, Lunatic"

---------- Post added 16-06-2013 at 22:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
I know - is nothing sacred?! All the happy hours spent there, and the lovely old green-painted pavilion "gone with the wind". See here.
Note my old Latin teacher, Arthur Jones captain of the staff XI and Brian Lockett sat next to him..thanks so much for this Hillsbro.
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Last edited by boyfriday; 16-06-2013 at 22:43.
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17-06-2013, 06:03   #9
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HI boyfriday - glad you enjoyed my posts (I'd like to send you a PM but your box is full). It would be interesting to know a little more about Charles Thompson, and what sort of business a "coach proprietor" was in at that time. Mail coaches were in decline in the mid- to late 19th century as the railways had taken over (though as late as 1914 the London to Norwich mail sometimes went by road on Sundays). Perhaps Charles owned a fleet of cabs, rather than coaches. The words 'cab' and 'coach' may have been interchangeable; in 1841 Charles was a "coachman" but ten years later he was a "cab proprietor".

I've now looked in all the books etc. I have and can't find a photo of Whiteley Wood Grange. I'll make a note for the next time I'm in the Local Studies Library.

Austin was a really nice chap; among his duties in the 1960s were tending the boiler and looking after Molly, the pavilion cat. If ever a tabby had an idyllic existence it was Molly - hunting in the fields and hedgerows and then returning to Austin for a bowl of Whiskas before settling down in her basket (on top of the boiler where it was nice and warm). Austin and "Wag" Waghorn did an excellent job at Whiteley Woods. A former county cricketer, Leslie Waghorn lived nearby on Oakbrook Road. He retired in 1971 and two years later he and his wife returned to their home town of Robertsbridge; he's now organising sports in the Elysian Fields.

I met Brian Lockett at a stamp auction in 1978 and we've been in touch ever since. Arthur Jones was my favourite teacher - even though I failed Latin 'O' level four times on the trot. He also taught Russian, and I sent him a copy of my first (rather abstruse) book. He now lives in Suffolk.

I just looked on Google Earth but couldn't see the Whiteley Wood Grange gate posts. In the 1891 census return, Charles Thompson's address is given as "Carr Bank". I must go for a walk again in that area sometime!
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17-06-2013, 11:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
HI boyfriday - glad you enjoyed my posts (I'd like to send you a PM but your box is full). It would be interesting to know a little more about Charles Thompson, and what sort of business a "coach proprietor" was in at that time. Mail coaches were in decline in the mid- to late 19th century as the railways had taken over (though as late as 1914 the London to Norwich mail sometimes went by road on Sundays). Perhaps Charles owned a fleet of cabs, rather than coaches. The words 'cab' and 'coach' may have been interchangeable; in 1841 Charles was a "coachman" but ten years later he was a "cab proprietor".

I've now looked in all the books etc. I have and can't find a photo of Whiteley Wood Grange. I'll make a note for the next time I'm in the Local Studies Library.

Austin was a really nice chap; among his duties in the 1960s were tending the boiler and looking after Molly, the pavilion cat. If ever a tabby had an idyllic existence it was Molly - hunting in the fields and hedgerows and then returning to Austin for a bowl of Whiskas before settling down in her basket (on top of the boiler where it was nice and warm). Austin and "Wag" Waghorn did an excellent job at Whiteley Woods. A former county cricketer, Leslie Waghorn lived nearby on Oakbrook Road. He retired in 1971 and two years later he and his wife returned to their home town of Robertsbridge; he's now organising sports in the Elysian Fields.

I met Brian Lockett at a stamp auction in 1978 and we've been in touch ever since. Arthur Jones was my favourite teacher - even though I failed Latin 'O' level four times on the trot. He also taught Russian, and I sent him a copy of my first (rather abstruse) book. He now lives in Suffolk.

I just looked on Google Earth but couldn't see the Whiteley Wood Grange gate posts. In the 1891 census return, Charles Thompson's address is given as "Carr Bank". I must go for a walk again in that area sometime!
Hi hillsbro,

If you look on Google street view at the junction of Hangingwater Road and Armthorpe Road you can see one of the gateposts at the entrance to what I believe was Whiteley Wood Grange. The other post is hidden behind a tree.
I guess that when the Grange was constructed Carr Bank Lane came right down to Hangingwater Road but subsequently when Armthorpe Road was built the latter name superseded the first for the first 75 yards or so ... if that makes sense!

echo
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17-06-2013, 12:08   #11
soft ayperth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
The location isn't far away. From the clinic, go down Whiteley Wood Road and turn left on to Hangingwater Road - a couple of hundred yards along on the left is where Whiteley Wood Grange was. Needless to say, the "clinic" has now been converted into up-market apartments...
.
When did that happen? It had an international reputation as a psychiatric medical center that moved away from the prison-like model that prevailed elsewhere, e.g. Middlewood. Set in pristine surroundings with understanding staff, it was forward looking and catered to people with less serious illnesses who would have felt most uncomfortable in the more traditional institutional setting. Has anything similar replaced it?
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17-06-2013, 12:23   #12
boyfriday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsbro View Post
HI boyfriday - glad you enjoyed my posts (I'd like to send you a PM but your box is full). It would be interesting to know a little more about Charles Thompson, and what sort of business a "coach proprietor" was in at that time. Mail coaches were in decline in the mid- to late 19th century as the railways had taken over (though as late as 1914 the London to Norwich mail sometimes went by road on Sundays). Perhaps Charles owned a fleet of cabs, rather than coaches. The words 'cab' and 'coach' may have been interchangeable; in 1841 Charles was a "coachman" but ten years later he was a "cab proprietor".

I've now looked in all the books etc. I have and can't find a photo of Whiteley Wood Grange. I'll make a note for the next time I'm in the Local Studies Library.

Austin was a really nice chap; among his duties in the 1960s were tending the boiler and looking after Molly, the pavilion cat. If ever a tabby had an idyllic existence it was Molly - hunting in the fields and hedgerows and then returning to Austin for a bowl of Whiskas before settling down in her basket (on top of the boiler where it was nice and warm). Austin and "Wag" Waghorn did an excellent job at Whiteley Woods. A former county cricketer, Leslie Waghorn lived nearby on Oakbrook Road. He retired in 1971 and two years later he and his wife returned to their home town of Robertsbridge; he's now organising sports in the Elysian Fields.

I met Brian Lockett at a stamp auction in 1978 and we've been in touch ever since. Arthur Jones was my favourite teacher - even though I failed Latin 'O' level four times on the trot. He also taught Russian, and I sent him a copy of my first (rather abstruse) book. He now lives in Suffolk.

I just looked on Google Earth but couldn't see the Whiteley Wood Grange gate posts. In the 1891 census return, Charles Thompson's address is given as "Carr Bank". I must go for a walk again in that area sometime!
Hi again hillsbro, as echo beach says the gateposts are at the junction of Armthorpe and Hangingwater, and lead to the first of the 'new' houses.

Amazing you're still in touch with Brian Lockett, he'll not remember me as I wasn't one of his more able students..to put it politely. Arthur Jones was a fab bloke he must still be around somewhere. I remember Austin making extra money by selling hot Ribena after winter football at Whiteley Wood and cold showers!

Have emptied my inbox!

---------- Post added 17-06-2013 at 12:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogG View Post
When did that happen? It had an international reputation as a psychiatric medical center that moved away from the prison-like model that prevailed elsewhere, e.g. Middlewood. Set in pristine surroundings with understanding staff, it was forward looking and catered to people with less serious illnesses who would have felt most uncomfortable in the more traditional institutional setting. Has anything similar replaced it?
The clinic was redeveloped about 15 years ago, I think it had been empty for some time before that and could easily have fallen to ruin, so I guess it was saved. Not sure where the psychiatric facility went but there is something similar at Nether Edge which looks after psychiatric outpatients (Nether Edge Hospital has also been developed into flats and houses btw!)
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17-06-2013, 17:00   #13
hillsbro
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When did that happen? It had an international reputation .... Has anything similar replaced it?
The clinic closed many years ago; I seem to recall a date of 1981. This was perhaps part of the abandonment of "institutions" and the expansion of "carein the community"..

---------- Post added 17-06-2013 at 17:38 ----------

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Hi again hillsbro, as echo beach says the gateposts are at the junction of Armthorpe and Hangingwater, and lead to the first of the 'new' houses...
Many thanks boyfriday and echo beach. This is rather embarrassing... By an odd series of coincidences, Mrs hillsbro and I (a) are at our Sheffield home for a couple of days, (b) had lunch with my sister Valerie and her husband Ian at the Crosspool Tavern (we went there by bus as I've never driven a car in my life, Mrs hillsbro doesn't like driving in Sheffield and we have our bus passes.) and (c) were invited back to their Dore home for coffee and dessert with Val and Ian. And - you guessed it - our route took us along Hangingwater Road, so I was able to see the gatepost as Ian drove past the end of Armthorpe Road. I had guessed that this was the location of the entrance to Whiteley Wood Grange, as directories place it there, and I wondered if the one gate post visible in the Google Earth photo is that of the Grange, but in the photo the inscription is covered by flowers.

Carr Bank Lane, Armthorpe Road, Bramwith Road etc. are not mentioned in census returns prior to 1901, and so I imagine the area was built-up sometime between 1891 and 1901. In the 1891 census the location of Whiteley Wood Grange is given simply as "Carr Bank" which I think must have been the name of the locality, with the lane being named after it when it the area was built up.
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17-06-2013, 18:08   #14
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The clinic closed many years ago; I seem to recall a date of 1981. This was perhaps part of the abandonment of "institutions" and the expansion of "carein the community"..

---------- Post added 17-06-2013 at 17:38 ----------

Many thanks boyfriday and echo beach. This is rather embarrassing... By an odd series of coincidences, Mrs hillsbro and I (a) are at our Sheffield home for a couple of days, (b) had lunch with my sister Valerie and her husband Ian at the Crosspool Tavern (we went there by bus as I've never driven a car in my life, Mrs hillsbro doesn't like driving in Sheffield and we have our bus passes.) and (c) were invited back to their Dore home for coffee and dessert with Val and Ian. And - you guessed it - our route took us along Hangingwater Road, so I was able to see the gatepost as Ian drove past the end of Armthorpe Road. I had guessed that this was the location of the entrance to Whiteley Wood Grange, as directories place it there, and I wondered if the one gate post visible in the Google Earth photo is that of the Grange, but in the photo the inscription is covered by flowers.

Carr Bank Lane, Armthorpe Road, Bramwith Road etc. are not mentioned in census returns prior to 1901, and so I imagine the area was built-up sometime between 1891 and 1901. In the 1891 census the location of Whiteley Wood Grange is given simply as "Carr Bank" which I think must have been the name of the locality, with the lane being named after it when it the area was built up.
..you just couldn't resist a drive by Hillsbro!
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17-06-2013, 18:40   #15
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Interesting links to the KES site. I was in the same form as Frank Baldock who, last time I heard of him, was working for the Sheffield Telegraph as a reporter. Now he has a big wine business in USA. I remember the pavilion at Whitely Woods well. Most of the football was played at Castle Dyke which wasn't much fun in a wet, cold midwinters day. Happy times.
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17-06-2013, 19:12   #16
Moirahyde
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On 29th July 1864, Charles Thompson announced he would run a commodious omnibus on
the Broomhill and Ranmoor route. The route started at the New Market Hall and proceeded
up Fargate, Barkers Pool, Devonshire St., and Division St. thence the usual route.
In 1869 he announced an excursion omnibus to Baslow every Wednesday and to Ashopton Inn every Thursday, in the summer only. Tickets - Single 1s 6d, double 2s 6d.
He also supplied mourning coaches, funeral omnibuses, hearses, wedding equipages and
waggonettes. Sheffield Daily Telegraph.

When he retired in 1873 he sold 110 horses and about 20 vehicles.
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17-06-2013, 19:48   #17
soft ayperth
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I recognize that it's a bit off the topic of the thread but I have to say that Whiteley Wood Clinic provided an entirely different kind of psychiatric care than is available via the community care model. It served both in patients and out patients and was a refreshing move away from the Victorian institutional model epitomized by Middlewood and thousands of other similar institutions across the globe.

Community care, which is also the path trodden over here, is designed to cater to the needs of psychiatric patients who have been discharged from a facility. A kind of "half way house." It has had mixed success over here, often resulting in people who are ill equipped to function in society being left high and dry. WWC provided quality care to people, mostly at the mild end of the mental illness spectrum, who could be kept under observation and treatment adjusted on an ongoing basis. When I moved to Canada in 1969, my GP had heard of the solid reputation of WWC. The head of the clinic, Prof. Stengel, was a world authority on teenage suicide.

Yes, I have been a patient at WWC so I know of what I speak. There's no shame in having been afflicted by psychiatric illness. It saddens me that it has gone. I suspect the real reason for its demise and replacement by the community care model is the same as over here - money.

Maybe WWC deserves a thread of its own. Not that we can do anything about it.

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17-06-2013, 20:30   #18
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On 29th July 1864, Charles Thompson announced he would run a commodious omnibus onthe Broomhill and Ranmoor route. The route started at the New Market Hall and proceeded
up Fargate, Barkers Pool, Devonshire St., and Division St. thence the usual route. In 1869 he announced an excursion omnibus to Baslow every Wednesday and to Ashopton Inn every Thursday, in the summer only. Tickets - Single 1s 6d, double 2s 6d. He also supplied mourning coaches, funeral omnibuses, hearses, wedding equipages and waggonettes. Sheffield Daily Telegraph. When he retired in 1873 he sold 110 horses and about 20 vehicles.
Very interesting; many thanks for this.

I wonder why it was that Whiteley Wood Grange was demolished 50+ years ago. It can't have been much more than 80 years old, and so it would have needed a great deal of neglect to become uninhabitable. Perhaps it was somehow hard to sell and the land was so valuable that it was simply bought up and redeveloped.
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I recognize that it's a bit off the topic of the thread but I have to say that Whiteley Wood Clinic provided an entirely different kind of psychiatric care than is available via the community care model...
It certainly did, and as you say the clinic had very high standards. The care I received there in 1967 (exam blues, anxiety etc.) was second to none, and I am still in touch with Dr Garrioch Sedman - 80 this month - a fine clinician. Professor Stengel was indeed an expert on teenage suicide and wrote many papers on the subject. However good "care in the community" might be, I ca't help thinking that something has been lost.
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17-06-2013, 21:03   #19
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This may be off subject but didn't the 'Wild Man of the Woods' Samuel Plimsoll live in Whitely Woods?
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17-06-2013, 23:26   #20
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This may be off subject but didn't the 'Wild Man of the Woods' Samuel Plimsoll live in Whitely Woods?
Yes - at Whiteley Wood Hall, which at century earlier had been the home of Thomas Boulsover, of Old Sheffield Plate fame.
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