Should the council use private company to fine people dropping litter?

You failed to read the document I linked to properly with your incorrect post that there was nothing in it about detention - and you say the first mention of PCSO is by me - wrong again- see 38 -

I am sorry if your having an off day on the reading front.

If the council want to fine people on the spot, let them use their own people. Outsourcing work to a private company worked well with Amey didn't it?

Privatisation suggests there's a profit to be gained in it somewhere... and that will be at the council taxpayers expense

Your post #44, first time PCSOs are ever mentioned, I ignored that reference because it's irrelevant

No i mentioned them in post 42, when i said i was incorrect about these private companies been allowed to detain and that it was only PSCO's that could.

Also your own post 38 said "I'd be fascinated to see what legal powers give them the right to detain someone.

I didn't realise we'd passed laws allowing for civilian police forces to be formed, and a citizens arrest can only be used in very clear circumstances (which don't include littering)."

PSCO's are civilian Police - you were them showed the relevant information showing you they could detain.

Okay, so in post #42 you noted that PCSOs had a power that the private companies didn't, which was actually the point I'd made and that we now agree on. In post #44, after you concede that private companies can't detain people, redfox posts information with the implication that it supports your earlier point of view, except it doesn't. It's now about PCSOs, which you had made a passing reference to, and which are not relevant to the conversation.

In case it's become unclear.

Private companies cannot detain people. We agree on this. PCSOs are not relevant. (If you want to discuss whether PCSOs are civilian or not then I'd be happy to talk about it in a thread of it's own).

just to clear things up

C+P

PCSOs are not attested constables, and therefore do not have the same powers of arrest under section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. They can, however, utilise the 'any person' powers of arrest under section 24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (commonly known as a citizens' arrest).

Am I correct in thinking that you can't use a citizens arrest for the offence of littering?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/24A

Yes you are correct

I think being heavy handed may be the only thing these individuals understand Decent people don't drop litter. If you think you can do this job any better why don't you help. You should never ask others to do something you are not willing to do yourself. Have you witnessed this heavy handed approach NO.

I think being heavy handed may be the only thing these individuals understand Decent people don't drop litter. If you think you can do this job any better why don't you help. You should never ask others to do something you are not willing to do yourself. Have you witnessed this heavy handed approach NO.

I can't understand people who litter, especially when there's a bin nearby.

But... two cases spring to mind when conscientious-sounding people have been fined - one lady poured the dregs of a take-out coffee down the drain before putting the cup in the bin. She did this because she didn't think it was a good idea to have liquid sloshing about in the bin. They fined her for pouring the dregs away! Another case (which was on the radio a couple of weeks ago) concerned a man who was fined for discarding 5 cherry pips. This bloke was some kind of environmental officer, to add insult to injury.

As ever, rules being applied with no discretion. That's the danger with target driven contracts.

Lets wait till some kid drops her ice-cream, you never know.

These private companies are the stupidest thing to use for fining littering. Greed and social intelligence don't click.

Littering is disgusting, yes.

But I'd like to see somebody try and fine me for accidentally dropping something. Bit of a joke really. Just walk off.

Littering is disgusting, yes.

 

But I'd like to see somebody try and fine me for accidentally dropping something. Bit of a joke really. Just walk off.

They could just radio for the police at that point as you will have committed an additional offence as well as the original littering.